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Old December 21st, 2017, 07:29 PM   #1
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Fighting for American Manhood by Kristin L. Hoganson


I have just completed a fascinating read called Fighting for American Manhood: How Gender Politics Provoked the Spanish-American and Philippine-American Wars by Kristin L. Hoganson. In the book, she discusses how jingos (American imperialists of the late 19th century) utilized gender identity in order to validate and extend the American empire abroad. It is an interesting interpretation on how these imperialists believe that strenuous manly values were being destroyed by the peace and industry experienced in the latter half of the 19th century and how the clamor for war would restore this American manhood. She also deals with how imperialists used gender identity to justify intervention in countries like Cuba and the Philippines. The book also adds an interesting angle in looking at how anti-imperialists also utilized gender to try and reign in the American empire. This book is quite good and opens up new angles on the creation of the American empire

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Old December 21st, 2017, 11:45 PM   #2

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Sounds like speculative hogwash to me, Divinespark. I don't believe that gender issues played any part whatsoever. The simple truth is this: the reason the Americans created a colonial empire (small though it was) was BECAUSE THE OTHER COUNTRIES WERE DOING IT. It's really that simple, a case of keeping up with the international Joneses. The US wasn't making tons of money off colonialism, in fact I don't see how it wasn't a significant economical strain taking on 50,000,000 peasant Filipinos and millions of peasants throughout Cuba and providing basic services to them.

At least you enjoyed the book, that's something.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 04:42 PM   #3
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Sounds like speculative hogwash to me, Divinespark. I don't believe that gender issues played any part whatsoever. The simple truth is this: the reason the Americans created a colonial empire (small though it was) was BECAUSE THE OTHER COUNTRIES WERE DOING IT. It's really that simple, a case of keeping up with the international Joneses. The US wasn't making tons of money off colonialism, in fact I don't see how it wasn't a significant economical strain taking on 50,000,000 peasant Filipinos and millions of peasants throughout Cuba and providing basic services to them.

At least you enjoyed the book, that's something.
It's not speculative, it's based on historical research. Where did you find your "because other nations are doing it" thesis? What research have you done to show you that it is true, can I see what sources you delved into to find such a riveting expose?

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Old December 24th, 2017, 12:05 AM   #4

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Oh my bad...the USA built a colonial empire because of gender issues. How stupid of me to argue otherwise.

Give me a break. The "historian" who wrote that book was more full of horseshit than Secretariat. If the author had based the building of the empire on "civilizing" the savages (aka: brown skinned folks) then she'd have been on something. But no, time to huff and puff on machismo being the driving force. Revisionist nonsense written by a female author bent on proving all the world's problems are to be blamed on men. I don't have time to waste on such nonsense.

However, since you DO have time to waste on crap history, might I recommend "Pyramid Power" and "The Devil's Triangle"? "Chariots of the Gods", maybe?

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Old December 24th, 2017, 12:11 AM   #5

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Oh my bad...the USA built a colonial empire because of gender issues. How stupid of me to argue otherwise. Everybody knows that women, who couldn't vote in the USA until 1920, carried serious political clout in the USA, despite the fact they couldn't vote, hold elected office, serve in the military, etc.

Give me a break. The "historian" who wrote that book was more full of horseshit than Secretariat.
The historian may have a point... Maybe not to suggest that women drove American imperialism but that American men drove it as a reflection of or proof of their own masculinity... Though that'd only be a guess as I've never heard of the book.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 12:24 AM   #6

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The historian may have a point... Maybe not to suggest that women drove American imperialism but that American men drove it as a reflection of or proof of their own masculinity... Though that'd only be a guess as I've never heard of the book.
Sounds like a bunch of malarky to me, like a feminist "historian" got her panties in a bunch and decided to go on a literary man bashing spree. Frankly, it's one of the silliest excuses I've seen offered thus far for colonialism: gender issues. LOL.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Strontium90 View Post
Oh my bad...the USA built a colonial empire because of gender issues. How stupid of me to argue otherwise.

Give me a break. The "historian" who wrote that book was more full of horseshit than Secretariat. If the author had based the building of the empire on "civilizing" the savages (aka: brown skinned folks) then she'd have been on something. But no, time to huff and puff on machismo being the driving force. Revisionist nonsense written by a female author bent on proving all the world's problems are to be blamed on men. I don't have time to waste on such nonsense.

However, since you DO have time to waste on crap history, might I recommend "Pyramid Power" and "The Devil's Triangle"? "Chariots of the Gods", maybe?
Well you aren’t really arguing and don’t misrepresent me, I said the book was about how jingos validated imperialism through gender. I did not say it was the sole excuse nor does the book make that claim. Still waiting for your sources on the “everyone was doing it” thesis...or have you dropped that thesis and gone to the “racism/civilizing” thesis as being the sole reason. Before you were saying it’s so simple that it was the former and now you are introducing the latter?

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Old December 24th, 2017, 04:44 PM   #8
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The historian may have a point... Maybe not to suggest that women drove American imperialism but that American men drove it as a reflection of or proof of their own masculinity... Though that'd only be a guess as I've never heard of the book.
There was a female component both for and against imperialism. Suffragists actually used the conflict to try to get involved in politics being that many were anti-imperialists and looked to end conflicts through arbitration. It is a fascinating book.

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Old December 24th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Strontium90 View Post
Sounds like a bunch of malarky to me, like a feminist "historian" got her panties in a bunch and decided to go on a literary man bashing spree. Frankly, it's one of the silliest excuses I've seen offered thus far for colonialism: gender issues. LOL.
Awesome you’ve drawn your conclusions without reading the book nor giving any valid reason why to dismiss it out right either unless you consider having a problem with revisionism or feminist “historians” a valid reason, which I have no idea why you are putting that in quotation marks. Have you published a book through Yale press? I doubt it, admittedly it’s an assumption.

Sorry but you are displaying this sexist motif and to me it is akin to cretin who is saying “women’s perspective in history har har har they are too emotional and belong in a kitchen”

Last edited by Divinespark; December 24th, 2017 at 04:58 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2018, 09:20 AM   #10
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Age of the Post Colonial and Feminist Theories Merge


Interesting blend of Post Colonial and Feminist Theories.
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