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Old September 25th, 2006, 09:52 AM   #11

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If I was around in the 1840-60's I would also support the Underground Railroad. I would support buying land for free slaves. I would support the defending of former slaves from people attempting to force them back into slavery. If those views make me a terrorist then my question is why aren't you one too? Which one would you choose.. taking up arms to defend human rights, or to take up arms to support slavery? Or would you just sit back in your home and talk about the problem and let others deal with it?
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Old September 25th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #12
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If I was around in the 1840-60's I would also support the Underground Railroad. I would support buying land for free slaves. I would support the defending of former slaves from people attempting to force them back into slavery. If those views make me a terrorist then my question is why aren't you one too? Which one would you choose.. taking up arms to defend human rights, or to take up arms to support slavery? Or would you just sit back in your home and talk about the problem and let others deal with it?
I wouldn't give land and arms to escaped slaves.

I wouldn't incite a slave revolt.

I wouldn't smuggle slaves.

I wouldn't fight for no slave.

I wouldn't die for one either, whether to get one or defend one.

I'd take up arms of the Confederacy. I wouldn't fight for or against slavery, bleeding Kansas aint my style.

I wouldnt sit back home and let others deal with it.

Ritocal, your lucky you don't live back in those times, or else you'd be swinging on the gallows, by order of the Federal Government.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 02:42 PM   #13

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I wouldnt sit back home and let others deal with it.
Even though I disagree with you on all your other points, I respect you for that one. Which was my original point.

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Ritocal, your lucky you don't live back in those times, or else you'd be swinging on the gallows, by order of the Federal Government.
Maybe, me and most of my New England friends. If freeing people wasn't a worthy cause to die for, I guess we wouldn't still be doing it to this day.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 03:10 PM   #14
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Maybe, me and most of my New England friends. If freeing people wasn't a worthy cause to die for, I guess we wouldn't still be doing it to this day.
Who's freedom do you fight for to this day?
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Old September 25th, 2006, 05:02 PM   #15

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Maybe, me and most of my New England friends. If freeing people wasn't a worthy cause to die for, I guess we wouldn't still be doing it to this day.
Who's freedom do you fight for to this day?
According to the President, we are fighting for the freedom for the people of Afganistan and Iraq.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 05:12 PM   #16
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According to the President, we are fighting for the freedom for the people of Afganistan and Iraq.
Are we really fighting for thier freedom? Or are we pressing our type of freedom on them? Not all freedoms are good to all people. So as a parellel, John Brown as opressing slave owners/traders/supoorters in an attempt to free people.

So maybe America is oppressing Muslims nations to free us from fear, or let christians go out into those countries, or perhaps none at all.
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Old September 26th, 2006, 08:27 AM   #17

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According to the President, we are fighting for the freedom for the people of Afganistan and Iraq.
Are we really fighting for thier freedom? Or are we pressing our type of freedom on them? Not all freedoms are good to all people. So as a parellel, John Brown as opressing slave owners/traders/supoorters in an attempt to free people.

So maybe America is oppressing Muslims nations to free us from fear, or let christians go out into those countries, or perhaps none at all.
You are really reaching now. "not all freedoms are good for all people"? Please elaborate and tell me what freedoms are not good for me.

"John Brown as opressing slave owners/traders/supoorters in an attempt to free people. "

So far you have compared John Brown to both Osama bin Laden and American forces fighting him. Which is it?
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Old September 26th, 2006, 12:35 PM   #18
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You are really reaching now. "not all freedoms are good for all people"? Please elaborate and tell me what freedoms are not good for me.
Prevnting one from doing something because it is veiwed as oppressive, may deny that person an oppurtunity to live.

Ex-slave - "Slavery is illegal, I get paid now." .... Previous master - "No shelter, food, water, work, land for you now."

Neccesities provided under previous circumstance are denied. Post-Civil war, ex-slaves lived much worse then they had as slaves, for even tif they found work, it was very poor wages.

It isnt illegal to deny one work.

Freedom os Speech. What you say isnt liked by everybody, even the government. They will punish you for abusing it, though if you havew freedom of it, doenst that mean you can do what you want with it?

Freedom of Religion. Lets all start a cult devoted to sacraficing human hearts like the Aztecs! You wouldnt want them.

In my opinion, not everything is purelly good nor everything purelly bad, not even purity itself.

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"John Brown as opressing slave owners/traders/supoorters in an attempt to free people. "

So far you have compared John Brown to both Osama bin Laden and American forces fighting him. Which is it?
I used Osama Bin Laden as what John Brown woould be like he he did what you wanted him too do. be calmer, richer, etc.

America is John Brown in my last post.
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Old September 27th, 2006, 03:01 PM   #19

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This is starting to become crazy. At the start of this I never thought I would have to defend the right of people not to be the property of others.

"It isn't illegal to deny one work"
You know what else wasn't illegal? To kill, beat, starve, rape, or abuse in any other way, a slave. A free person has the right to look for work elsewhere. A slave does not have any rights at all.

Your list of two freedoms that are bad for me... seriously? You are going to tell me that freedom of speech and religion are bad for me? I have not seen one person punished in America for free speech. If you don't like Freedom of Religion.. ok. You are now Jewish. Report to Temple this Saturday or you will be jailed/fined.

Being radical, calm, and rich does not make you a homicidal terrorist. I'm not even sure how someone can be calm and radical at the same time.
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Old September 28th, 2006, 06:06 PM   #20
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This is starting to become crazy. At the start of this I never thought I would have to defend the right of people not to be the property of others.

"It isn't illegal to deny one work"
You know what else wasn't illegal? To kill, beat, starve, rape, or abuse in any other way, a slave. A free person has the right to look for work elsewhere. A slave does not have any rights at all.

Your list of two freedoms that are bad for me... seriously? You are going to tell me that freedom of speech and religion are bad for me? I have not seen one person punished in America for free speech. If you don't like Freedom of Religion.. ok. You are now Jewish. Report to Temple this Saturday or you will be jailed/fined.

Being radical, calm, and rich does not make you a homicidal terrorist. I'm not even sure how someone can be calm and radical at the same time.
The slavery which you think of is a perverted or very rare type. You have listened too much too the propoganda of the abolitionist and such which took rare occurances and made them sound every day. It was actually illegal to kill a slave.

Rape was rare, but the movies which Hollywood has made make the africans seem to be raped every day, like it was thier job.

Abuse, though would be common, if you count the hot weather and working out in it, along with the whip being used by the more cruel plantation owners. Also, injuring a slave would mean hurting your profits.

Starve? A slave would not be starved, unless your talking of the slaves in the Central and South Americas which the Spanish owned. Why would someone destroy an expensive thing such as a slave? Remember, slave trade from Africa was abloished, so slaves werent readily available.

You do not understand Ritocal. Im not talking about a place where whites are "We are nice to blacks" it isnt like in todays world. The slave would have had to travel far to find a work place, tens of miles ... and most likely they would have no horses or any such thing. Most freed slaves ended up in chain gangs .... Congratulations Reconstruction.

Freedom of Speech is non-existant in any country. Though it may be broad in what is allowed, it is still controlled. You cannot protest without getting a license, which may not be given if your veiws arent liked. You cannot speak on rebeling against the government or such, though the bill of rights guaranteed it ... Though the government banned that ... "The right to overthrow a corrupt government, something alog those lines.

Freedom of Religion is really in the US which I live "What the Christains allow" ... they sneeze, the government says "bless you" a non-christain sneezes and the government turns away. Freedom of religion also creates groups which endanger the members within it. Such as Satanism or Sadistic groups.

I never said anything about being calm, rich, and radical making someone a homicidal terrorist. Could you please point that out?
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