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Old September 27th, 2016, 10:44 PM   #21

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Attacking Hawaii with a small task force is one thing, sailing an entire army across the Pacific and then pursuing a land war with America and somehow winning and managing to occupy half of it is a whole different beast entirely.

I might watch this. Who knows. My application of extreme realism in an attempt to break the fourth wall might ruin for me. My suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 07:52 AM   #22

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I read the book: implausible. I have seen the whole series: even more implausible. It's creepy and because the fundamental premise is so far-fetched, the whole thing left me cold.
Hopefully it can be somewhat less implausible than "Red Dawn", I'd settle for that.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 07:56 AM   #23

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Attacking Hawaii with a small task force is one thing, sailing an entire army across the Pacific and then pursuing a land war with America and somehow winning and managing to occupy half of it is a whole different beast entirely.
The funny thing is that it was considered a possibility by the US brass.
I remember reading that Stimson was discussing plans to seal off the passes in the Rocky Mountains if Japan invaded the West Coast.

The (then neutral) US in 1941 was concerned about possible Nazi moves into the Americas (likely through South or Central America) which was far beyond their logistical capabilities
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:02 AM   #24
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I like itso far but if u want a movie / bookon same subject check Fatherland.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:11 AM   #25

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I like itso far but if u want a movie / bookon same subject check Fatherland.
Great book, crap TV film.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
Attacking Hawaii with a small task force is one thing, sailing an entire army across the Pacific and then pursuing a land war with America and somehow winning and managing to occupy half of it is a whole different beast entirely.

I might watch this. Who knows. My application of extreme realism in an attempt to break the fourth wall might ruin for me. My suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
It might be implausible (even impossible) if you start from 1939, but say Britain is a bit more determined to keep the US in check and the Venezuela Crisis in 1895 spins out of control and a WWI scale conflict ensues between the US and the UK. Japan joins with the UK and takes Hawaii and Alaska, Germany uses the opportunity of the US and UK being distracted to seize France, the Low Countries, and vast tracks of Eastern Europe (which would have been plausible in WWI if the US and Britain had stayed out) and turns the resources of the continent towards building up naval power sometime prior to 1910. This war between the US and UK could easily turn into trench warfare in New England or Canada, perhaps having the same demoralizing effect on the US and UK that WWI had on Europe. Sometime in the 20's Germany, with her new fleet built using the resources of the continent, may be able to attack and defeat a pacifist Britain, with animosities from the last war keeping the US out of the affair. The interruption in global trade from these wars could cause similar economic problems as historically seen during this time period and lead to the rise of fascism. WWII could start with a German Naval superpower already in control of Britain and France, including some of their American colonies, Russia as a rump state, and Japan in control of Alaska and Hawaii, with America being isolationist and inwardly focused.

Or one could go back further and start with the premise of Britain supporting the Confederacy in our Civil War. The 20th century turned out they way it did because of Anglo-American partnership, take that away and various scenarios become plausible.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:47 AM   #27
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Great book, crap TV film.
I liked though .
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #28

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It might be implausible (even impossible) if you start from 1939, but say Britain is a bit more determined to keep the US in check and the Venezuela Crisis in 1895 spins out of control and a WWI scale conflict ensues between the US and the UK. Japan joins with the UK and takes Hawaii and Alaska, Germany uses the opportunity of the US and UK being distracted to seize France, the Low Countries, and vast tracks of Eastern Europe (which would have been plausible in WWI if the US and Britain had stayed out) and turns the resources of the continent towards building up naval power sometime prior to 1910. This war between the US and UK could easily turn into trench warfare in New England or Canada, perhaps having the same demoralizing effect on the US and UK that WWI had on Europe. Sometime in the 20's Germany, with her new fleet built using the resources of the continent, may be able to attack and defeat a pacifist Britain, with animosities from the last war keeping the US out of the affair. The interruption in global trade from these wars could cause similar economic problems as historically seen during this time period and lead to the rise of fascism. WWII could start with a German Naval superpower already in control of Britain and France, including some of their American colonies, Russia as a rump state, and Japan in control of Alaska and Hawaii, with America being isolationist and inwardly focused.

Or one could go back further and start with the premise of Britain supporting the Confederacy in our Civil War. The 20th century turned out they way it did because of Anglo-American partnership, take that away and various scenarios become plausible.
Looks a bit like Turtledove--but he always wants the Americans to win, even if they are the wrong Americans.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
Attacking Hawaii with a small task force is one thing, sailing an entire army across the Pacific and then pursuing a land war with America and somehow winning and managing to occupy half of it is a whole different beast entirely.

I might watch this. Who knows. My application of extreme realism in an attempt to break the fourth wall might ruin for me. My suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
Me too. Too much unexplained stuff sort of ruins it for me.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 11:56 AM   #30
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If you told people in Europe that Germany would conquer Paris, Warszaw and many other capitals just in a few years and millions people will be exterminated in death camps they told you are insane.
It became reality in a few moments.
True, but when you consider that the Germans were unable to cross the English channel to invade the UK, the idea that Germany could cross the Atlantic (and Japan the Pacific) to invade the US seems ludicrous in the extreme, literally a bridge too far.
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