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Old May 23rd, 2017, 09:51 AM   #1
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British itv series "Victoria"


I watched this last January on PBS in the US. The good thing is that it got me to read up on the subject. The bad thing is that it got me to read up on the subject and discover that the series is mostly fiction. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but other PBS series such Wolf Hall (Henry VIII and Thomas Cromwell) were excellent. If there is interest in this, I'll be happy to describe the difference between itv's "Victoria" and history.

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Old May 24th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #2
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I'd be interested. The main thing I know is that Melbourne was old and fat and unlikely to be the object of romantic interest implied in the series. Otherwise, there's lot I rather doubt, but haven't checked.
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Old May 24th, 2017, 05:18 PM   #3
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I'd be interested. The main thing I know is that Melbourne was old and fat and unlikely to be the object of romantic interest implied in the series. Otherwise, there's lot I rather doubt, but haven't checked.
Yes Melbourne was obese and about 58. He did have a reputation as a lady's man which got him into a scandal a few years before Victoria's (V's) accession. We know a lot about V's thought's because she maintained a journal from age 13 until a few days before her death at 81. That coupled with her letters and private correspond with her ministers provides a huge library of information running over 60 million words. If V had a romantic interest in Melbourne, she would have written about it. In fact she called him the father standing in for the father she never knew. V's marrage proposal to Melbourne is pure fiction and a bit cringe worthy. She did depend on him and asked why he was forsaking her when he resigned office. That's in her journal.

The role of Baron Stockmar was left out completely. He was an advisor to King Leopold of Belgium (V's uncle) and later became an important influence on V and Prince Albert. Sir John Conroy, hated by V, was kicked out of the Court on day 1 after V conferred with Melbourne. She isolated her mother to a remote corner of the palace and she was also banned from Court. I think the drama is remise in not including V's childhood since it's necessary to understand who she was. In the drama her mother (Mama) and Conroy are constantly around taunting her until she got married. Another villain was the Duke of Cumberland who was next in line for the throne. He's seen conspiring with Conroy and Mama to taunt V as being unfit to be Queen and requiring a regent. In fact, Cumberland left for Hanover to take over as king just days after V's accession and rarely appeared in Court after.

A few other things. There were no dripping tallow candles, no infestation of rats, and the entire "downstairs drama" is complete fiction trying to imitate "Upstairs Downstairs" or "Downton Abbey". There's more but I'll save that for another thread and refer back to this one.

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Old May 25th, 2017, 11:28 PM   #4
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I misspoke in the previous post. This thread is still open for replies.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 12:43 PM   #5
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This is the itv drama's rendition of the "Bedchamber Crisis". V was not giving up her favorite (and so far only) PM without fight, even if her dear Lord M wanted to retire.

While the crisis is historic, the looming presence of the Duke of Cumberland and Sir John Conroy is not, nor is the infestation of rats. However these two villains are just too good (as bad guys) not to include for the sake of drama.

I think Jenna Coleman's portrayal of the queen is the best part of the drama. She seems to well reflect the combination of vulnerability and iron will of the real young Victoria.


https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&fr=yfp-t&tt=b

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Old October 13th, 2017, 04:30 PM   #6
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This is the first half-episode of the series and covers V's accession. It generally follows the facts of V's initial days as queen. The difficulties of a very young woman with no real world experience overcoming her sex, short stature, youth and naiveté were apparent. Could she be taken seriously as Sovereign of the British Empire, the world's only superpower?

She was well spoken, educated in the arts, history and languages (German, French and some Italian along with the obligatory Latin), but totally unprepared for the intrigues of the Royal Court. From the first she depended on her PM Lord Melbourne. There was no romance there but a strong paternal attachment. This is very clear from V's diary. Young men like the Russian Grand Duke, Prince Ernst (her first crush) and his younger brother Prince Albert (her future husband) are described very diffently than Dear Lord M. The romance depicted in the drama is fiction. He was 40 years older than her.

Another fiction is V not knowing the names and and faces of the Privy Council. She was Heir Apparent for 7 years and one of her tasks was to know the names and faces of the Privy Council at all times. As Princess, she knew Melbourne and the Duke of Wellington, the Tory leader in the House of Lords as well as a number of other important people. She in fact made a very good first impression with her poise, elegant speech and demeanor in those early days as queen.

Note: An ad runs shortly after the video first starts. Let it run. The video restarts at the beginning and runs through.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...r=yfp-t-s&tt=b

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Old October 21st, 2017, 01:32 PM   #7
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I just finished watching Season 2 of Victoria. My impression was that it went almost totally fictional.
---SPOILERS--
Is there any evidence at all that Prince Albert was really the son of King Leopold of the Belgians? Can we assume that the episode in which Victoria and Albert spend the night with in a Scottish tenant cottage with the old couple is completely made up? Did Victoria and Robert Peel really end up fulsomely affectionate of each other?

I wish Albert would brood less, and speak up as though he expects respect.

I'm assuming all the courtier and below stairs melodrama is imaginary.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev View Post
I watched this last January on PBS in the US. The good thing is that it got me to read up on the subject. The bad thing is that it got me to read up on the subject and discover that the series is mostly fiction. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but other PBS series such Wolf Hall (Henry VIII and Thomas Cromwell) were excellent. If there is interest in this, I'll be happy to describe the difference between itv's "Victoria" and history.
Do you know if "Victoria" was produced by the same folk who produced the recent ITV series on Elizabeth? Elizabeth was a very good drama, and one that was fairly accurate. I always assume ITV squeeze any good concept until the moneymaking pips have fully squeaked. Tbf to ITV I see Victoria & Abdul has been released in the cinema this year. Even if that movie gets 100% on Rotten Tomatoes I think I'd rather burn my eyes out with an aids infected red hot poker than watch it.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 09:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandra View Post
I just finished watching Season 2 of Victoria. My impression was that it went almost totally fictional.
---SPOILERS--
Is there any evidence at all that Prince Albert was really the son of King Leopold of the Belgians? Can we assume that the episode in which Victoria and Albert spend the night with in a Scottish tenant cottage with the old couple is completely made up? Did Victoria and Robert Peel really end up fulsomely affectionate of each other?

I wish Albert would brood less, and speak up as though he expects respect.

I'm assuming all the courtier and below stairs melodrama is imaginary.
There have been rumors about Albert's paternity (and Victoria's too). In the drama it's left as a "what if" like in real life.

I doubt A and V stayed in a Scottish cottage. However after A died, V did invite the locals to Balmoral for tea and meals. She also visited them in their homes according to biographers.

V did come to admire Peel who took a political hit by repealing the Corn Laws. She mourned his sudden death in 1850. This is in contrast to Gladstone where V did not attend his funeral.

The only truth about the downstairs drama that I know of is the existence of chef Franciteli. One of V's cooks was murdered in Germany. That's not in the drama as far as I know. I'm in the US and have only seen some of Season 2 on the internet.

Last edited by stevev; October 22nd, 2017 at 09:59 AM.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 11:51 AM   #10
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Do you know if "Victoria" was produced by the same folk who produced the recent ITV series on Elizabeth?
No. It was produced by novelist Daisy Goodwin. So she gave us a "historical" novel. It's hard for me to see why you want to create fiction for a life that's pretty dramatic to begin with: 18 year old girl wakes up one morning and finds she the sovereign of the world's most powerful country after a highly controlled childhood. Her mother and her mother's evil estate manager want to control her after her accession by raising questions about her fitness to rule. She has no friends and her only confidantes are her childhood governess and her new PM. When her PM has to resign she fights to keep him and actually succeeds, leaving a hole in the British Constitution (which maybe should be written down somewhere).

She marries Albert and actually loves him (see diaries), but she dislikes babies, pregnancy and breast feeding. So she has 9 children, 7 in 15 years.

Then Albert goes and dies on her and she goes into the deepest, longest, most morbid mourning the world has ever seen! Of course she finds time for a certain Mr Brown and later for an East Indian servant while in her 70's.

This is all reality! Why the fiction??

Last edited by stevev; October 22nd, 2017 at 12:31 PM.
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