Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > History in Films and on Television
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

History in Films and on Television History in Films and on TV - Documentary Films, Historical Dramas, and history programs on PBS and the History Channel


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 26th, 2017, 11:27 PM   #1
Archivist
 
Joined: May 2017
From: Virginia
Posts: 123
The Sultan and the Saint


Did anyone see this on PBS? It is about St.Francis of Assisi's meeting with the Sultan of Egypt in the early 13th C. How and why did you like or dislike it? How accurate or inaccurate was it? I do take issue with the statement that the crusaders were "His (the Pope's) army" and implication that the First Crusade was his conquest as if the Crusaders simply worked for him. It also falls into the trap of sometimes treating Christians and Muslims as monolithic groups.

One final and small thing I found funny is the depiction of a Frisian crusader as some sort of pseudo-Viking with a giant beard and furs in Egypt.
ThatGuy is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 27th, 2017, 07:25 AM   #2

JoanOfArc007's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: USA
Posts: 2,643

I have been looking all over for the docudrama mentioned by the OP, still have not found it.
JoanOfArc007 is offline  
Old December 27th, 2017, 07:26 AM   #3

JoanOfArc007's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: USA
Posts: 2,643

Well apparently "The Sultan and the Saint" is available on PBS.com

Home | The Sultan and the Saint
JoanOfArc007 is offline  
Old December 31st, 2017, 01:36 AM   #4

Naima's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Venice
Posts: 1,761

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy View Post
Did anyone see this on PBS? It is about St.Francis of Assisi's meeting with the Sultan of Egypt in the early 13th C. How and why did you like or dislike it? How accurate or inaccurate was it? I do take issue with the statement that the crusaders were "His (the Pope's) army" and implication that the First Crusade was his conquest as if the Crusaders simply worked for him. It also falls into the trap of sometimes treating Christians and Muslims as monolithic groups.

One final and small thing I found funny is the depiction of a Frisian crusader as some sort of pseudo-Viking with a giant beard and furs in Egypt.
I disliked and its unhistorical.
To me is not even a documentary but a goodism propaganda to claim Islam is a religion of peace , the Christianity did the Crusades and are so evil and the usual crap sold of west is bad and Islam is good.

In Reality S Francis Criticized Islam and the Sultan , He even proposed to compare who is right by making an hordaly and the Islamic priests refused.
This was documentary perfectly timed with Church new line of dialogue with Islam , but it tells a twisted reality of facts.
Naima is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 02:55 PM   #5
Archivist
 
Joined: May 2017
From: Virginia
Posts: 123

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naima View Post
I disliked and its unhistorical.
To me is not even a documentary but a goodism propaganda to claim Islam is a religion of peace , the Christianity did the Crusades and are so evil and the usual crap sold of west is bad and Islam is good.

In Reality S Francis Criticized Islam and the Sultan , He even proposed to compare who is right by making an hordaly and the Islamic priests refused.
This was documentary perfectly timed with Church new line of dialogue with Islam , but it tells a twisted reality of facts.
Yeah, I have to agree. First of all, it portrayed both men as almost 21 C. deists supremely rational compared to everyone around them. I think the documentary was reaching for something that wasn't really there and trying to turn its heroes into what would be more acceptable by modern standards.

It dismisses/demeans Francis' ideas and achievements by implying that they came from the Muslims. Which maybe he was influenced by Islam, but the docudrama takes a bit away from his personal brilliance. It also ignores his criticism of Islam and support of the Crusades. It comes across as a more personal, smaller scale version of the myth that Muslims civilized Europe (by the time of the Crusades Europe was out of the Dark Ages). This is shown in the stereotypical depiction of a Medieval European peasant with obligatory mud stain on his cheek (at least I how its mud). This is in contrast to the well dressed Muslims.

Another, thing is that it focuses a lot on the dehumanization of Muslims on the behalf of the Christians. It treats this as a phenomenon that seemingly grew around the time of the Crusades to justify them. It ignores that there was many dehumanizing views on both sides for centuries prior. I wish they'd gone into more detail on the treatment of Jews and Christians as dhimmis in the Muslim world or the treatment of pilgrims. Speaking of which, it brings up the Rhineland Massacres against Jews, but conveniently ignores massacres of Jews and Christians in the Muslim world. Oh, and the mention that the Sultan's gift of food to the Crusaders spelled the end of the Crusades is nonsense. It was not the first time there was chivalry shown on either side in the Crusades and the Crusades themselves lasted for almost another 70 years (or hundreds if you count the Crusades against the Turks in Europe).

Finally, the armour was ridiculous. I see can't get over the grunting pseudo-Viking Frisian wearing fur in Egypt (which I think was portrayed by the same actor who portrayed the Berserker in season 4 of Vikings). Overall, it was definitely biased to the Islamic side of things.
ThatGuy is offline  
Old January 4th, 2018, 06:39 AM   #6

Naima's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Venice
Posts: 1,761

Well one brilliant example of how the enlightened islam treated Christians is Syracuse.

Muslim besieged the city fir months and couldn't take if not for famine and after they could finally take the city the inhabitants never surrendered, even women fought couse they knew what muslims would do as usual. The muslims killed every male child and women after rape and sold the last ones as slaves. Syracuse was the richest city of europe after Constantinople and the most technologically advanced... after the arabs was a pile of dust and the capital of Sicily shifted to Panormus. Christians under muslims were treated as slaves unless they converted. When Norman Christians come they treated muslims differently and those last fled from Sicily because were no more the masters there.
Continuing raiding and pillaging european coasts till even 19th century.
Naima is offline  
Old January 4th, 2018, 07:51 AM   #7

JoanOfArc007's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: USA
Posts: 2,643

The docudrama was ok, it could have been better but could have been worse. When Hollywood gets involved folks, dont expect every single historic detail to be right including the dress style of the actors. As for the viking looking Christian who the Sultan slayed in the film, certainly during the middle ages some Christian men would have had large beards and a sort of strong and rigorous look to them.


If one carefully watched though, both Christians and Muslims are portrayed in different fashions, including a positive portrait of Christian warrior Priest. So in 'The Sultan and the Saint" at times both Muslims and Christians get portrayed in a bad light.


Christians and Muslims both have a history of violence. Otoh one can note how in the modern times that Muslim monuments exist in Christian Europe, Christian monuments exist in Muslim middle east. A testimony to the greatness and tolerance of both religions.

Last edited by JoanOfArc007; January 4th, 2018 at 07:54 AM.
JoanOfArc007 is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > History in Films and on Television

Tags
saint, sultan



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Sultan and the Saint JoanOfArc007 History in Films and on Television 0 October 23rd, 2016 04:02 AM
Tipu Sultan avantivarman Asian History 94 September 23rd, 2014 01:12 AM
Tipu Sultan Dexteraj Asian History 7 June 28th, 2011 12:47 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.