Gaius

The way I interpret it, the Guy Fawkes mask is not a symbol of anarchism, but of resistance to the fascist regime. Just because you want to overthrow a government doesn't mean that you don't want any government at all in place. His "V" symbol is very much like that of anarchy, but as far as I can remember the movie never explicitly states the connection and therefore is open to interpretation.

At least in the movie, that is. I don't take Anonymous' choice of mask too seriously.

bunyip

Yeah, the movie just didn't work for me. However, I happened upon the soundtrack CD in a specials bin for $2.----I love it!

beetle

I find this a good explanation. Of course the "V" is because the character was held in cell 5 (according to the movie; my comic book reading days ended long, long ago. Though I did get that 1980s Frank Miller epic about Batman as the Dark Knight. That comic launched the modern series of Batman movies, beginning with the Nicholson-Keaton-Basinger film directed by Tim Burton. Burton created the modern Gotham City in filmdom. If I may rattle on for a moment, unlike the campy but fun 1960s TV series and movie as well as the campy DC comics of the time - very much unlike Marvel comics - the modern Batman movies are much closer to the original Batman of the 1940s. For example, back then the Joker was not a funny prankster as portrayed during the 1960s, he was a mass murderer/serial killer. And yes, I'm aware of the Batman serials of the time which watered things down.)

I think one might also take note of how fictional writers fashion their sources to fit their stories. Sort of like how sculptors mold clay. For example, the last thing Shakespeare was interested in was re-telling history. He was interested in finding sources to create dramas. Hey, that's why it's called fiction.

In regard to the post to which you responded, I've got some historical persons to mention in regard to English history. Henry VIII, Cromwell, the Stuart kings, Elizabeth. Talk about absolutist monarchs and leaders! Anyone in disagreement with them, it was "off with their heads!"

Spartacuss

funny-pictures-history-this-day-in-history-the-death-of-guy-fawkes.jpg
The mask is a nice likeness though...

Nemowork

Frank Miller might have launched the modern Batman but Alan Moore created the modern Joker, just to link things up.

If you can, read 'the killing joke' from the late 80s back when Moore was in his genius phase of Swamp thing, V for Vendetta and Watchmen and before he got to his older bigheaded and grumpy 'bow before the genius' phase.
Virtually every Joker trope of the past couple of decades including Heath Ledgers turn in the Dark Knight got created there, from the multiple choice version of his history to the psychotic violence instead of the cartoon foolery.

Parnell

This is an excellent film that satirizes political systems in the Heller/Orwell/Vonnegut tradition. I wouldn't underestimate it or slap it off as some corporate sellout.

Nemowork

Read the source comic/graphic novel, then comment on how it was toned down.

beetle

Thank you for such excellent info. I'll google "the killing joke" and Alan Moore. For quite awhile I've been completely unfamiliar with the comics industry, except to notice how expensive comics are and that, at least the few I've skimmed, how much graphics have come to dominate dialogue, at least in the comics I flipped through.

In regard to Ledger and his death after his portrayal of the Joker, just something interesting I saw on TV shortly after his death. I was watching E Entertaiment. They showed a clip of some reporter who managed to speak to Jack Nicholson. It was a very brief clip and I never saw it again. Apparently Ledger must have contacted Nicholson about portraying the Joker (such things are not unusual.) The reporter asked Nicholson how he felt about Ledger's death and Nicholson responded, "I tried to warn him." Truthfully, I really don't know what he meant by that response. Maybe it has something to do with method acting or whatever, I don't know. But that was Nicholson's response.

It reminded me of the old story regarding a young Dustin Hoffman and the veteran Lawrence Olivier. They had a scene together in a movie in which Hoffman needed to portray a character who was wore out and hadn't been able to sleep for awhile. So Hoffman decided to wear himself out and not sleep in order to play the scene. Olivier responded, "Why doesn't he just act?"

I have no idea if that story relates to the Ledger tragedy and the Nicholson response, but it reminded me of the Olivier response.

Thanks for the excellent info. I'll do some googling.

Nemowork

The Hoffman story is a good anecdote but not entirely true, Hoffman has lightened up a bit over the past few years and gives better interviews. The conversation is true and he did truly look like death and told everybody he'd been jogging and and staying awake all night for the part.

He'd actually been out in Studio 54 partying all till dawn and was looking for a good excuse

beetle

That's hilarious. I was not aware Studio 54 was a party place in the mid 1970s, though it became famous in the 1980s. (Well, the 70s were the disco era.)

If this is bearable and not too off-topic, I've got another Hoffman story. When Miller was writing Death of a Salesman, he intended Willie Loman to be a physically small person. However, when Lee J. Cobb auditioned, he was found so suitable to the role that the physically small Loman was discarded. Cobb would play the role for decades. According to what I heard, when Hoffman was a young actor a producer or director told him, "One day you'll play Willie Loman." About 20-30 years later he would, and he would be terrific in the role of the neurotic salesman.

Hey, I don't know if the story is true. But it's the story I've heard. But what's interesting to me is that a physically small actor finally played the role as Miller had originally envisioned his character.