Greek community in Egypt

[Shaheen]

Egypt: The Other Homeland - Al Jazeera World - Al Jazeera English
(follow the link to watch the documentary)


Greeks and Egyptians are connected by ancient history. Both peoples are descendants of two of the world's oldest known civilisations.

At the start of the 20th century there were about 200,000 Greeks in Egypt. Today, the Greek community there has approximately 1,000 members.
It was a community that once controlled 80 per cent of Egypt’s financial life, founded the first bank, established the country’s first theatres and cinemas, and produced the first wines and cigarettes.


But this thriving community departed with the rise to power of Gamal Abdel Nasser and pan-Arab nationalism.


This film follows several Greek citizens who undertake a return visit to Egypt, the land where they were born and raised.
They visit their old homes and neighbourhoods as well as former family businesses, and they search for the Egyptian friends they left behind.

[Thessalonian]

Pan-Arab nationalism had the same effect as Pan-Turkish nationalism in Western Turkey: The Greeks abandonded their homes and moved to Greek mainland.

[Midas]

Actually Aegyptiotes (Egyptian Greeks) are a very important cultural group of the Greek society. It is quite amazing that the community survived so long, even though it was almost reduced a lot several hundred years ago.

[Chrysoloras]

I am not certain the Greek community in Egypt traces its roots back to antiquity. The modern community was founded in the 19th c. by immigrants from Greece and Asia Minor. The most notable member is the poet Constantin Cavafis whose poetry I love. Others include the Tositsa, Averof and Benaki families of benefactors of the Greek state. Unfortunately the community also produced Demis Rousos.

It is interesting to note that in Ottoman times the Greeks, dispersed as they were all over the Eastern Mediteranean and Eastern Europe played a similar role in those areas as Jews played in Western Europe.

The Eye Expanded: Life and the Arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity Frances B. Titchener and Richard F. Moorton, Jr., editors, University of California press, "Macedonia Redux", Eugene N. Borza, p. 259

Until the early nineteenth century, Greeks of the Diaspora had been prominent throughout Europe in diplomacy, commerce, and cultural affairs. The courts and counting houses employed or were managed by Greeks whose skills in these matters were legendary in Europe for centuries, and who had a telling influence on European life out of proportion to their small numbers. With the outbreak of the Greek War of Independence and the consequent establishment of the modern Hellenic state in the 1820s and 1830s, many of these talented Greeks joined the effort to build the new nation. But in so doing, Greek influence abroad waned.

[WeisSaul]

Aren't the Copts the ones who are the ancient community, and the Arabs just came mainly in the 10th century?

[Chrysoloras]

Well that is one way of looking at it. The name Copt derives (most probably I am no expert) from the ancient Egyptians' word for themselves (Akupt or some such). Equally the spoken language of the Coptic community was, until the 18th c., derived from Demotic Egyptian as is their liturgical language today even though most speak Arabic.

That means that there is a process of Islamization and Arabization of the native population that began with the Arab conquest and continues. Muslim Egyptians are indeed Arabs but they are also genetically descended from the native populations for the most part. It depends on which aspect you find most important. I tend to eschew the importance of genetics in matters of ethnicity since it is, to me, a subject of consciousness.

[WeisSaul]

Originally Posted by Chrysoloras

Well that is one way of looking at it. The name Copt derives (most probably I am no expert) from the ancient Egyptians' word for themselves (Akupt or some such). Equally the spoken language of the Coptic community was, until the 18th c., derived from Demotic Egyptian as is their liturgical language today even though most speak Arabic.

That means that there is a process of Islamization and Arabization of the native population that began with the Arab conquest and continues. Muslim Egyptians are indeed Arabs but they are also genetically descended from the native populations for the most part. It depends on which aspect you find most important. I tend to eschew the importance of genetics in matters of ethnicity since it is, to me, a subject of consciousness.

So the Copts and Arab Egyptians are both Egyptian, but the Copts are more Egyptian. Good to know.

Anyways, in 1900 there were some 8 million people in Egypt, of which around 200,000 were Greeks (2.5%), and I'm gonna guess 10% (800,000 people) was Coptic. Greeks were as much a part of Egypt after thousands of years as native Copts, Arabized Egyptians, Nubians, and Jews. Even the Italians had been hanging around for some 700 years. I say the Egyptian constitution should have given all 5 groups equal status under the law, but Nasser apparently didn't share my view.

Pan-Arabism is a dumb concept, and should be put in the same trash can as pan-slavism. I can understand a unification of the Arabian peninsula, A North Sudan-Egypt-Cyreneica thing, or Tunisia-Tripolitania-Algeria union, but after that it is just ridiculous to say every Arab should be together.

I also can't understand how Egypt went from being Cosmopolitan, fairly secular, and pretty modern, to an undeveloped backwater. Well I guess that's socialism for you.

Also compare the flags of the Kingdom of Egypt and the Republic of Egypt, and tell me which you think is better. I say the Kingdom.

I think Nasser took Egypt down the wrong path.
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I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist when I say this, but does anybody find it interesting that Al Jazeera put out a documentary highlighting Greco-(Arab)Egyptian history right around the time Greece and Israel are starting to become friends.

I may be talking out of my rear end here but...

[Pythagoras]

I have a friend who is Aegyptiotis (Egyptian Greek). According to him, when his family migrated to Alexandria from Constantinople back in the middle 19th century, there were already some Greek communities probably dated back to the Medieval era (not sure about antiquity though).

I also can't understand how Egypt went from being Cosmopolitan, fairly secular, and pretty modern, to an undeveloped backwater. Well I guess that's socialism for you.

+1000 WeisSaul.

[Yaunâ]

Indeed, most Aegyptiotes went to Egypt in 19th century. After the Arabic conquest of 7th century the number of Greek speakers, who were many, gradually reduced because they either migrated towards Byzantine territories or got Arabized.

[Pythagoras]

Originally Posted by Yaunâ

Indeed, most Aegyptiotes went to Egypt in 19th century. After the Arabic conquest of 7th century the number of Greek speakers, who were many, gradually reduced because they either migrated towards Byzantine territories or got Arabized.

What would be really interesting to know is whether there were Greek communities in Egypt dating back to the years of the antiquity. I have asked my Aegyptiot friend for further informations (who is also a history lover) and even though he has chronicles and diaries from the 19th century, he has not found yet any reliable sources about Greeks preexisting this migration wave. Only as a part of an oral tradition from his grandfather that spoke about the existence of Greek communities dating back to the Medieval (Byzantine?) era, he could find traces of such continuity.

Whether this is true or not, I do not know. I guess it requires a professional research for any valid assumption.