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Old September 29th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #1

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A reminder


With school in full swing, I want to let our new members (and review for the older ones) how the homework help section works:

When someone poses a question or is looking for assistance on a research paper, we are required to ask for some proof that they worked on the question/assignment/research prior to their post. If you see an instance in which they do not show their work, please ask them for proof of work first before you answer. For more information, please read the homework help guidelines

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=5275

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=5811

Thanks,

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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:58 PM   #2

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Re: A reminder


So what has happened to the reply I posted on American Isolationism?

And why are you "required" to ask for proof of work?

I dont know who thought up the Homework Help rules, but they seem to me to be rather silly. Perhaps a healthy debate on this issue will make the mods see the error of their ways?
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Old February 21st, 2010, 10:24 PM   #3

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck View Post
So what has happened to the reply I posted on American Isolationism?

And why are you "required" to ask for proof of work?

I dont know who thought up the Homework Help rules, but they seem to me to be rather silly. Perhaps a healthy debate on this issue will make the mods see the error of their ways?
Perhaps, this is done so the kids can actually learn things by trying to discover them, and as this is HISTORY forum, research and knowing how to go about it is a good part of the job description.

After all, it doesn't take much to parrot off what somebody else told you. And it isn't a great help to a kid, either, just placing of a "v" in a checklist.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 10:53 PM   #4

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Re: A reminder


Oh please, spare me the 'socially repsonsible' nonsense. If someone wanted to plagiarise their history essay there are a mutlitude of better and more concise options available to them on the internet. It seems to me that the forum is over-reaching itself if it thinks it has a role to play in teaching the discipline of history to its members. One only has to look at the range of silly topics that are posted to realise what a futile undertaking that is. The fact of the matter is, the homework section provides some of the most interesting questions, and yet we are prevented from discussing them because of some "red tape".

If a newbie has any sense s/he wont declare it to be homework and will simply post their question in the general discussion threads, and soon enough the homework section will die a natural death.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 11:49 PM   #5

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck View Post
Oh please, spare me the 'socially repsonsible' nonsense. If someone wanted to plagiarise their history essay there are a mutlitude of better and more concise options available to them on the internet. It seems to me that the forum is over-reaching itself if it thinks it has a role to play in teaching the discipline of history to its members. One only has to look at the range of silly topics that are posted to realise what a futile undertaking that is. The fact of the matter is, the homework section provides some of the most interesting questions, and yet we are prevented from discussing them because of some "red tape".

If a newbie has any sense s/he wont declare it to be homework and will simply post their question in the general discussion threads, and soon enough the homework section will die a natural death.
Socially? Not at all. Learning is personal, not social. And the people answering here are teachers. So what do you expect?

And yes, you are right, whoever wants to cheat - will. But why should the teachers HELP them do it? So, it follows, that those who DO honestly place their questions in the homework help section chose to NOT "plagiarise their history essay" from the "mutlitude of better and more concise options available to them on the internet", as you so aptly noted.

If they are good teachers, and Comet is, then he will expect the student to do his part until stuck, then direct him in the right path to look for the answer. Not hand it over to him. And he is right. This is the way to teach.

As to you being "prevented to discuss" whatever you like - you are nothing of the kind. After all, you don't have to discuss it in the same thread immediately upon request, do you?
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 12:41 AM   #6

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
As to you being "prevented to discuss" whatever you like - you are nothing of the kind. After all, you don't have to discuss it in the same thread immediately upon request, do you?
What are you suggesting - that I start a thread about US isolation between 1919-39? Wouldnt that be defeating the purpose of the homework section? The post I made on this topic has now disappeared, so indeed someone is preventing discussion of it.

If the people answering here are teachers, what is that to me? You could be the great spaghetti monster from Mars for all I care. Are you here to discuss history or not, or do you treat this place as an extension of the classroom? If so, then perhaps the teachers amongst you should consider that some students need a few ideas to get an essay kick-started, and even if they dont, what's the difference between consulting the forum members or consulting wikipaedia? Nobody is asking you to write the essay for him or her. What's wrong with giving them a few ideas to get started?

Personally, I think a student should be applauded for showing the initiative to investigate the forum for answers or talking points.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 03:51 AM   #7

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck View Post
What are you suggesting - that I start a thread about US isolation between 1919-39? Wouldnt that be defeating the purpose of the homework section? The post I made on this topic has now disappeared, so indeed someone is preventing discussion of it.

If the people answering here are teachers, what is that to me? You could be the great spaghetti monster from Mars for all I care. Are you here to discuss history or not, or do you treat this place as an extension of the classroom? If so, then perhaps the teachers amongst you should consider that some students need a few ideas to get an essay kick-started, and even if they dont, what's the difference between consulting the forum members or consulting wikipaedia? Nobody is asking you to write the essay for him or her. What's wrong with giving them a few ideas to get started?

Personally, I think a student should be applauded for showing the initiative to investigate the forum for answers or talking points.
I really don't understand your vehemence on this subject. What is the problem? Can't you hold your interest for a few days and post again? It's now or never with you? Is YOUR interest span so short that it matters so much?

Yes, there is a purpose behind the rules of the homework section, which to me sounds perfectly reasonable and correct. There is nothing wrong with giving ideas - the rule here is that they try to DO something first. What is wrong with THAT?

The homework section is not for you, it is for those who need help with homework. So it seems a bit... selfish perhaps, to get so angry that YOUR interests are not taken into account here. They are not. Purposefully.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 07:31 AM   #8

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Re: A reminder


I'm with the mods and V here. We can teach our kids to parrot what we tell them, or we can teach them how to learn. The choice seems obvious to me.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 07:36 AM   #9

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
Originally Posted by diddyriddick View Post
I'm with the mods and V here.
Yes, the process of thinking about the subject or question, doing the research, writing the essay (or what ever) and other preparation is much more important than the facutal knowledge imbibed. The process is more important than the result, and by giving out the answer shortcircuting the process is shortchanging the student.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 11:01 AM   #10

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Re: A reminder


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck View Post
So what has happened to the reply I posted on American Isolationism?

And why are you "required" to ask for proof of work?

I dont know who thought up the Homework Help rules, but they seem to me to be rather silly. Perhaps a healthy debate on this issue will make the mods see the error of their ways?
Bismarck,

Please read this:

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=11481

As for having a debate, we had one a good while ago. See here:

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=5184
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