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Old October 19th, 2016, 03:52 AM   #11

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Enjoyed this one: The Early Slavs - Culture and Society in Early Medieval Eastern Europe, by P. M. Barford.

Here's a review by Florian Curta:
https://www.academia.edu/232883/Revi...?auto=download

I downloaded a PDF version of this book some time ago; perhaps its still available.

It has a number of references to Slovaks and Slovakia and there are the chapters:
State-formation: the West Slavs
The Early Slavs and the Modern World.
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Old October 19th, 2016, 04:45 AM   #12

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Originally Posted by Shtajerc View Post
You're kidding, my college flat is in Trnovo, I live there during the week. It used to be a separate village, but by now it is fully a part of Ljubljana, no more than 15 min from the very city center on foot.

If you'll have any problems with the text you can ask me. The language is a bit archaic, using words that are closer to Serbian and aren't used today anymore. Perhaps that makes it more understandable.


@Excalibur: that's due to the Southern Moravian (Slovácko) music I listen. Lots of dialect in the songs, so I pick up dialectual forms instead of standard forms. "Ja su" instead of "jsem" etc.
That's cool, you see, the world is so small! It's a funny coincidence :-)
It's better that there are Serbian words because that indeed makes it more understandable. Though I'm glad I I'll read something in Slovenian because I want to understand all Slavic languages.
BTW your czechoslovak is great, you would have no problem here :-)
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Old October 19th, 2016, 01:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Shtajerc View Post
You're kidding, my college flat is in Trnovo, I live there during the week. It used to be a separate village, but by now it is fully a part of Ljubljana, no more than 15 min from the very city center on foot.

If you'll have any problems with the text you can ask me. The language is a bit archaic, using words that are closer to Serbian and aren't used today anymore. Perhaps that makes it more understandable.


@Excalibur: that's due to the Southern Moravian (Slovácko) music I listen. Lots of dialect in the songs, so I pick up dialectual forms instead of standard forms. "Ja su" instead of "jsem" etc.
Then you picked a wrong source to learn Czech .
Look in Czech land is Czech language bit homogenic with some tiny accent variations and with a few specific words typical to specific areas. In Moravia it is bit different. Moravians are some ethnographical subgroups of Czech (many of then would not like it) and there is nothing like Moravian language. They use many dialects of Czech different in every Moravian area and they have so many of them.
If the people in Brno which is about 100 kms far away start to use their dialect i have no idea what are they talking about. In such case Slovak language is more understanable to me. Maybe even your Slovenian.

Example:
"Holka" or "děvče" means girl in Czech.
In Slovak: dievča.
In Brno: babáč.
In north Moravia: roba.

Still interested in Czech?
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Old October 19th, 2016, 01:51 PM   #14

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Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
Then you picked a wrong source to learn Czech .
Look in Czech land is Czech language bit homogenic with some tiny accent variations and with a few specific words typical to specific areas. In Moravia it is bit different. Moravians are some ethnographical subgroups of Czech (many of then would not like it) and there is nothing like Moravian language. They use many dialects of Czech different in every Moravian area and they have so many of them.
If the people in Brno which is about 100 kms far away start to use their dialect i have no idea what are they talking about. In such case Slovak language is more understanable to me. Maybe even your Slovenian.

Example:
"Holka" or "děvče" means girl in Czech.
In Slovak: dievča.
In Brno: babáč.
In north Moravia: roba.

Still interested in Czech?
I encounter the same thing in Slovenia. There are some 48 dialects or so and for some you'd hardly believe they're still the same language. Noone speaks standard here. We Styrians are quite known for our frequent use of germanisms and dialectual words. I often have to explain myself to others what a word just used means. Even to Styrians as every second village speaks a bit different. You can hear firtof, firtuh, firtah, firtk etc, all meaning predpasnik.

I noticed some obvious differences. Bohemians often use diftongs (ou), while Moravians not so much. Kluk vs šohaj etc. And the various expressions for "girl" is just amazing. Děvča, divče, frajarka, galanka, cerečka ...

BTW, do they still identify as Moravian Slovaks in Slovácko or are they fully Czech by now?
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Old October 19th, 2016, 02:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Shtajerc View Post
I noticed some obvious differences. Bohemians often use diftongs (ou), while Moravians not so much. Kluk vs šohaj etc. And the various expressions for "girl" is just amazing. Děvča, divče, frajarka, galanka, cerečka ...

BTW, do they still identify as Moravian Slovaks in Slovácko or are they fully Czech by now?
Jesus, you are better than me in Czech dialects. I totally forgot "galanka" when i pressed my brain here .

Slovácko: i believe their last serious attempt to join Slovakia ended in ww2. I believe they face Czechization (if i can use such word) as the local culture is typical for villages and country areas and now moving to cities as i sthe trend in all around the country.

There is a funny TV series Slovacko sa nesudi made in 70s, i enjoyed it when i was kid but i was often lost in the terrible dialect. You can find it on Youtube.
Truth is the Moravian dialects often come from old Czech language while the official Czech is more distant as it was subject of Germanization for centuries and in cities lived a significant German minority.
It is ironical but it seems these crazy Moravian dialects are more Czech than my official Czech itself.

Last edited by Excalibur; October 19th, 2016 at 02:12 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2016, 11:06 PM   #16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post

Example:
"Holka" or "děvče" means girl in Czech.
In Slovak: dievča.
In Brno: babáč.
In north Moravia: roba.

Still interested in Czech?
yeah, hantec I hoped I would pick it up when I was in Brno but for some reason, no one around me spoke it!

at least I picked some Moravian dialect
"Jooo, já jsu chcíplá, já du dom." (for our Slovenian friend: I'm tired, I'm going home)
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Old October 20th, 2016, 12:49 AM   #17

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Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
Jesus, you are better than me in Czech dialects. I totally forgot "galanka" when i pressed my brain here .

Slovácko: i believe their last serious attempt to join Slovakia ended in ww2. I believe they face Czechization (if i can use such word) as the local culture is typical for villages and country areas and now moving to cities as i sthe trend in all around the country.

There is a funny TV series Slovacko sa nesudi made in 70s, i enjoyed it when i was kid but i was often lost in the terrible dialect. You can find it on Youtube.
Truth is the Moravian dialects often come from old Czech language while the official Czech is more distant as it was subject of Germanization for centuries and in cities lived a significant German minority.
It is ironical but it seems these crazy Moravian dialects are more Czech than my official Czech itself.
Dechovka for life!

I looked the series up, lovely costumes. Seems to be Uhersko-Ostrožsko, Blatnice, Boršice, there about somewhere. I must say I have trouble understanding them. Not because of the dialect, I can't understand Czech much better anyway. I have some of the basics covered, but hearing Czech people speak is something completely different. If I was exposed to it more, I could probably learn i via TV and subtitles in a year or two. That was the case with Croatian.

I had that weird experience once. I was on a exchange in Austria and there were lots of young folks from various countries. Among them some Slovaks from Bratislava and Croats from Pula. Of course we Slovenes understood the Croats with ease, we spoke Croatian with them. The Croats understood the Slovaks also pretty well, they spoke each their own language and understood each other well enough. We had to speak English with the Slovaks and they with us. The Croats didn't understand us when we spoke Slovene either. That's when it hit me in the head - we're weird. Except for Kajkavian dialects of Croatian, we have not a single language that would be really close to us. I mean, like Czech and Slovak, Croatian and Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian, Polish and (idk, Kashubian, Ukrainian?). There's just noone there for us.


Quote:
(for our Slovenian friend: I'm tired, I'm going home)
"chcíplá" sounds so weird. Would never have guessed it.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 02:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Shtajerc View Post
Dechovka for life!

I looked the series up, lovely costumes. Seems to be Uhersko-Ostrožsko, Blatnice, Boršice, there about somewhere. I must say I have trouble understanding them. Not because of the dialect, I can't understand Czech much better anyway. I have some of the basics covered, but hearing Czech people speak is something completely different. If I was exposed to it more, I could probably learn i via TV and subtitles in a year or two. That was the case with Croatian.

I had that weird experience once. I was on a exchange in Austria and there were lots of young folks from various countries. Among them some Slovaks from Bratislava and Croats from Pula. Of course we Slovenes understood the Croats with ease, we spoke Croatian with them. The Croats understood the Slovaks also pretty well, they spoke each their own language and understood each other well enough. We had to speak English with the Slovaks and they with us. The Croats didn't understand us when we spoke Slovene either. That's when it hit me in the head - we're weird. Except for Kajkavian dialects of Croatian, we have not a single language that would be really close to us. I mean, like Czech and Slovak, Croatian and Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian, Polish and (idk, Kashubian, Ukrainian?). There's just noone there for us.

"chcíplá" sounds so weird. Would never have guessed it.
Yes there is lot of fun with Slavic languages and its dialects.
Here is map of dialects in Czech and its subgroups.
http://www.ujc.cas.cz/sys/galerie-ob...apa-nareci.jpg

Wallachia is 3.1
Slovacko is in green color 3.2
By the way Czech Armoury lies in Uhersky Brod, if you are familiar with CZ guns and rifles. Legendary Czech machineguns came from Wallachia.
I met some people from the both areas in university and i say they came from a different world .
These people are used to start a day with a Slivovice (strong spirit made of plums) or wine while people in Czech core prefer beer. They look a little slower than Czechs but more heartly, friendly and open. They remind me southern nations as Greeks, Portugueses).
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Old October 20th, 2016, 02:32 AM   #19

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Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
Yes there is lot of fun with Slavic languages and its dialects.
Here is map of dialects in Czech and its subgroups.
http://www.ujc.cas.cz/sys/galerie-ob...apa-nareci.jpg

Wallachia is 3.1
Slovacko is in green color 3.2
By the way Czech Armoury lies in Uhersky Brod, if you are familiar with CZ guns and rifles. Legendary Czech machineguns came from Wallachia.
I met some people from the both areas in university and i say they came from a different world .
These people are used to start a day with a Slivovice (strong spirit made of plums) or wine while people in Czech core prefer beer. They look a little slower than Czechs but more heartly, friendly and open. They remind me southern nations as Greeks, Portugueses).
Great, I couldn't find a good map anywhere. Thanks. But what is now spoken in Sudety?

In theory I know Slovácko pretty well and I know Uh. Brod. Mashine guns a bit less although I think we Yugoslavs used some of your stuff in ww2 (a variation of ZB30 or sth very similar). I noticed they are more known for their wine in Southern Moravia, while the rest seem to consume great beer. Add slivovka (as we call it ) and no wonder they say Brecwuaw instead of Břeclav.

A propos different world, this is as extreme as you get in Slovene. I can't understand it.

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Old October 20th, 2016, 08:01 AM   #20
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Great, I couldn't find a good map anywhere. Thanks. But what is now spoken in Sudety?

In theory I know Slovácko pretty well and I know Uh. Brod. Mashine guns a bit less although I think we Yugoslavs used some of your stuff in ww2 (a variation of ZB30 or sth very similar). I noticed they are more known for their wine in Southern Moravia, while the rest seem to consume great beer. Add slivovka (as we call it ) and no wonder they say Brecwuaw instead of Břeclav.

A propos different world, this is as extreme as you get in Slovene. I can't understand it.
Video: it sounds as Hungarian or Klingon . I would never say it is a Slavic language. I was not able to identify single word.
ZB: it means Brno Armoury, which became famous when license for machineguns bought Britain. BREN means Brno and Enfield, so the famous British machinguns are in reality the Czech ones.
Sudety: mostly Czech and Sudenty have small parts also in North and South Moravia and. You can compare the map linked before to the Sudety map.
Click the image to open in full size.
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