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Old March 15th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #81

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Originally Posted by Kamissick View Post
It's obviously because of his black hair. Halfdan obviously is a Nordic giving name, when I hear names like that I think of Kings of Norway and Vikings. Many Vikings had Black hair as well, however none have been King. Usually the kings were Blond, Red haired. It is possible Halfdan might of been the first King with Black hair in Norway which is why they called him Halfdan The Black.

I honestly don't buy people saying he was black skinned. That makes no sense, if a person is going to be King of a country, they better be descendant from that country. (Except the USA). Halfdan was a Norwegian, so he would be a White man with Black hair. The thing people would notice immediately would be his Black hair, thus naming him Halfdan the Black (for his black hair). '

Just like Blackbeard, he didn't name himself Blackbeard. His crew mates called him Blackbeard, because of how thick and long his beard was, that is covered his face. Or the Irish, they called them Blacks because of their black hair even though they were White.

Use some common sense people, it's because he had Black hair. Even HIS SON was given the title "Fair head" who was probably a Blond. You tell me what the chances are of a Black man giving birth to a baby with Blond hair, very very slim. And judging that they all had Nordic Norse names they should all be white.

Just like Eric the Red, or Captain Redbeard - A Turkish pirate named Barbarossa in Spanish which means "red head" because of his red hair.
It is not at all obvious to scholars. Halfdan the black is variously called Halfdan the swarthy. Hair is almost never described as swarthy. In case you missed it, concerning the term "svartr", the article I posted says that "Often it is not entirely clear if the color adjective refers to hair color or complexion..." It's an interesting article.

The Color Blue in Old Norse-Icelandic Literature

And its clear being dark or swarthy did not preclude one from being either Norwegian or a ruler in Norway. Take, for example, Giermundr Heljarskin, one of the twins born to King Horr in the 9th century. The name heljar-skin referred to his skin and literally meant "black as hell".

"Settlers named in Landnamabok include many men of distinction: Geirmundr heljarskin, a warrior king (herkonungr) with a base in Rogaland (Sin, H86) ..." Old Icelandic Literature and Society, 2000, Edited by: Margaret Clunies Ross, University of Sydney, Cambridge University Press

You see here he was a "warrior king" with his own base in southern Norway? If anything it shows the ancients weren't so preoccupied with race as we are today. "There are many tribes and many tongues ... [t]here are giants and dwarfs; there are black men and many kinds of strange tribes." Snorri Sturlusson was in a position to describe the racial-scape of Scandinavia since he is believed to have written the story of the kings of Norway and lived in the 12th-13th centuries.

And Gwyn Jones was right to say: "The viking peoples who lived between the neck of Jutland and the Lofotens, Sogn, and Uppsala, were not all alike, and emphatically not of one 'pure' Nordic race." (A History Of The Vikings, pg. 67-68)

That much is attested in numerous family crests which clearly depict people of black ancestry. There was once a class of British and Scottish historians like Sir Godfrey Higgins, David MacRitchie, Albert Churchward etc., that were quite preoccupied with the subject and speculated quite broadly and, at times, erroneously, about the origins of pre-modern northerners, especially the Gypsies. Nevertheless, they did indeed uncover many interesting facts. On the cover of MacRitchie's Ancient and Modern Britons vol I he unveils a 16th century portrait of a Norman knight (and within the book numerous coats of arms to substantiate his hypothesis):

Click the image to open in full size.

In most instances dark-skinned peoples in the north descended from certain Celtic and Picti tribes who had long dwelt there and were almost invariably associated with seafaring. Tacitus, for example, remarked on the "dark complexion of the Silures or Black Celts and [their] unusually curly hair". Herodotus believed the Picts descended from Egyptians. This was before the Romans (and in any case the Romans never conquered Ireland), so it cannot be attributed to a small number of Africans among Latin elites. In other cases, they, like Giermundr Heljarskin's mother, came from present day Denmark.

The question of where these people really came from isn't easy to ascertain. My best guess, they were remnants of Neolithic foragers who spread through Tunisia and/or NE Africa roughly 10,000 yka.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 08:20 PM   #82

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^Black faces on family crests denote property, as in slaves. A good example of this is the papal crest.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #83

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^Black faces on family crests denote property, as in slaves. A good example of this is the papal crest.
No they don't. The Douglas family is perhaps the strongest example against that theory. Besides, often they wear crowns and other marks of nobility. It would be wrong to say this denotes "property" or slave ancestry.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #84

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Dubh glas = black river

That's where the name comes from, I assume.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 06:04 AM   #85
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Vikings most likely had enslaved or purchased slaves that were arabic or maybe even african in heritage, but if one of them would've borne a child it wouldn't have made chief, not to mention king of the nation. I trust vikings in those days would've been openly racist and even xenophobic in some parts, except maybe the most wide-travelled traders.

Vikings did raid a city called Nekor or something around present-day Morocco, I recall reading about it as a kid.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #86
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Vikings most likely had enslaved or purchased slaves that were arabic or maybe even african in heritage, but if one of them would've borne a child it wouldn't have made chief, not to mention king of the nation. I trust vikings in those days would've been openly racist and even xenophobic in some parts, except maybe the most wide-travelled traders.

Vikings did raid a city called Nekor or something around present-day Morocco, I recall reading about it as a kid.

Ummm, no?

The Vikings didn't own Arabs slaves... The Vikings BOUGHT slaves from the Arabs.

Also one great historian named Ahmad ibn Fadlān ibn al-Abbās ibn Rāšid ibn Hammād traveled with the Vikings to learn there culture, coming to a conclusion that they were sub-human and disgusting uncivilized people.


As for Halfdan, I know for a fact he was not black skinned. He had black hair, his son was called fairhead, obviously having light hair then his father.

I'm of Viking descent, and I have black hair. If I was to be king thousands of years ago and they nicknamed me the Black because of my black hair would you guys be arguing if I had black skin or black hair?
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Old May 12th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #87
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I found some new information on Halfdan the Black...

Watch this while you read what i'm about to tell you, it makes things legendary...

Now....

Halfdan the Blacks mother as some of you claim is Moorish. False!

His mothers name is Asa Haraldsdottir, she was a Norwegian Queen for the kingdom Agder. Her GRANDSON was Harald Fairhead, a Norwegian king described as having the palest blue eyes, and blond hair. Obviously Halfdan the Blacks son.

Asa's father was Harald Granraude, he was also king of Adger. Harald Granraude was married to Gunnhild Ragnvaldsdottier, the daughter of Ragnvald Sigurdsson.

Asa was purposed marriage by King Gudrod the Hunter. Asa's father refused the marriage, and Gudrod the Hunter ended up killing Asa's father, her brother, kidnapped her and married her. Asa took revenge a year later, and hired a servant to kill Gudrod the Hunter.... Asa took Halfdan with her to her kingdom of Adger, and ruled it for 20 years...

Asa then left the throne to her son, Halfdan. Halfdan also demanded half of his brothers kingdom. Halfdan was given the title because of his notorious black beard which struck fear to the citizens of his kingdom and neighboring kingdoms.



So....


Halfdan the Blacks father - Gudrod the Hunter, and mother Asa Haraldsdottier. Both white Norwegians who were rules as well as their ancestors.

Halfdan the Black gave the throne to his son, Harald Fairhead. His son then united Norway and was the first king of Norway. Declaring himself to be called, Harald I of Norway.



Case solved, now we all know Halfdan the Black was indeed a white Viking, with black hair. He did not have African blood or whatever.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #88

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamissick View Post
I found some new information on Halfdan the Black...

Watch this while you read what i'm about to tell you, it makes things legendary... YouTube - Amon Amarth - Varyags Of Miklagaard+lyrics

Now....

Halfdan the Blacks mother as some of you claim is Moorish. False!

His mothers name is Asa Haraldsdottir, she was a Norwegian Queen for the kingdom Agder. Her GRANDSON was Harald Fairhead, a Norwegian king described as having the palest blue eyes, and blond hair. Obviously Halfdan the Blacks son.

Asa's father was Harald Granraude, he was also king of Adger. Harald Granraude was married to Gunnhild Ragnvaldsdottier, the daughter of Ragnvald Sigurdsson.

Asa was purposed marriage by King Gudrod the Hunter. Asa's father refused the marriage, and Gudrod the Hunter ended up killing Asa's father, her brother, kidnapped her and married her. Asa took revenge a year later, and hired a servant to kill Gudrod the Hunter.... Asa took Halfdan with her to her kingdom of Adger, and ruled it for 20 years...

Asa then left the throne to her son, Halfdan. Halfdan also demanded half of his brothers kingdom. Halfdan was given the title because of his notorious black beard which struck fear to the citizens of his kingdom and neighboring kingdoms.



So....


Halfdan the Blacks father - Gudrod the Hunter, and mother Asa Haraldsdottier. Both white Norwegians who were rules as well as their ancestors.

Halfdan the Black gave the throne to his son, Harald Fairhead. His son then united Norway and was the first king of Norway. Declaring himself to be called, Harald I of Norway.



Case solved, now we all know Halfdan the Black was indeed a white Viking, with black hair. He did not have African blood or whatever.
I mentioned his ancestry back on Page 7. Nobody wanted to listen. But glad to see that someone else supports this. Good info Kamissick.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 07:29 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Kamissick View Post
Halfdan was given the title because of his notorious black beard which struck fear to the citizens of his kingdom and neighboring kingdoms.


Halfdan the Black gave the throne to his son, Harald Fairhead. His son then united Norway and was the first king of Norway. Declaring himself to be called, Harald I of Norway.


This is for the people who won't bother to read what I have said, or want a quick read. -- Btw, I mean to say Harald Fairhair not Harald fairhead.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 08:05 AM   #90
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Also if I should add about Gudrod the Hunter....

He had a first wife who died of illness, they had one son named Olaf Gudrodsson (Halfdan's half brother).

Gudrod the Hunter was king of Vestfold and Romerike. He sent purposed marriage to Asa (Halfdans mother), but Asa father denied the marriage... Gudrod sent troops to Adger to kidnap Asa. Harald Grandraude (Asa mother) and Gyrd (Asa's brother) fought with the troops of Agder to defend from Gudrods invasion. They both died that day on battle along with their troops and were defeated. Gudrod kidnapped Asa and raped her, and born was Halfdan Gudrodsson... The son of a bastard...

When Halfdan was only 1 years old, a feast was taken in the kingdom and his father was drunk and was leaving. The assassin stabbed Gudrod into his chest with a Spear, killing him. Gudrods soldiers quickly reacted to this and killed the assassin. Finding that it was Asa's pageboy. Asa then quickly left Vestfold and moved back to Agder with her son Halfdan. She ruled for 20 years passing down the throne to Halfdan Gudrodsson who was given the title the Black for his great black beard.

Halfdan and his brother Olaf divided their kingdom in half. Halfdan demanded half of Olaf's kingdom, and Olaf refused. Olaf then gave the throne to his son Gandalf Alfgeirsson who ruled Vestfold. Halfdan then invaded and took over Vestfold from Gandalf.




Halfdan the Black died in Randsfjord... He was returning from a feast and drowned after breaking through ice. He body was divided into four parts, in four districts, Ringerike, Romerike, Vestfold and Heithmork.

Halfdan also had many, he had three wifes. One of them giving birth to Harald Fairhair. Halfdan the Black gave throne to his son Harald fairhair who united Norway with the power his father left off from them and was called Harald I of Norway.

Harald Fairhair (Harald I of Norway) had numerous amount of children. Such as Halfdan Haraldsson the Black who was poisoned by his sister (who was also given the title for his black hair and descendents from Halfdan Gudrodsson a.k.a Halfdan the Black), or Eric Haraldsson who was supposed to be second king of Norway but was killed by one of Olaf's sons.



Halfdan the Blacks family tree....

Is on wikipedia
Halfdan_the_Black Halfdan_the_Black


I find it very fascinating, i'm in love with their family heritage and stories.
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