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Old November 17th, 2017, 10:47 AM   #21

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Speaking of misnomers, Edgar the Peaceful!!
Please explain, Bugulgad, why you think this is a misnomer. His reign was indeed peaceful, and that is why he is often known as Edgar the Peaceable.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 11:26 AM   #22

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Let's not exagerate , those guys are known from texts written and re- written by churchmen
those kings church policies were one of the biggest factor in how they were perceived
the church was greedy , it's only concern was to get more land and to have it protected by someone else , anyone who failed in the later or obstructed the former was written off as a bad king
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Old November 17th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #23

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.
Let's not exagerate , those guys are known from texts written and re- written by churchmen
those kings church policies were one of the biggest factor in how they were perceived
the church was greedy , it's only concern was to get more land and to have it protected by someone else , anyone who failed in the later or obstructed the former was written off as a bad king
Sure but he did fail to defend the entire Anglo-Saxon realm from invasion and was forced into exile.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #24

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Please explain, Bugulgad, why you think this is a misnomer. His reign was indeed peaceful, and that is why he is often known as Edgar the Peaceable.
Oh my knowledge on the English kings is elementary at best. My go to source is a whopping 200 page synapsis of each ruler by Nigel Cawthorne, 2009.

However he does cite the Anglo-Saxon chronicle on Edgars orders for Thanet-land to be plundered, provocation of Scotlands kings, enforcement of press-ganging and sexual debauchery.

His reign was peaceful in terms of a break in normal intercourse with the Viking, but he may not have been a peaceful man.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 05:15 PM   #25

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^ par for the course for this period of time.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 02:39 AM   #26

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Originally Posted by bugulgad View Post
Oh my knowledge on the English kings is elementary at best. My go to source is a whopping 200 page synapsis of each ruler by Nigel Cawthorne, 2009.

However he does cite the Anglo-Saxon chronicle on Edgars orders for Thanet-land to be plundered, provocation of Scotlands kings, enforcement of press-ganging and sexual debauchery.

His reign was peaceful in terms of a break in normal intercourse with the Viking, but he may not have been a peaceful man.
So early 21st century morality should equate with 10th century morality?
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Old November 19th, 2017, 05:55 AM   #27

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What was described as debauchery, at this time, was in fact nookie with nuns in various nunneries, found throughout the country! Whether this was to an excessive extent is arguable. The reality may be, it may have left formal marriage a somewhat awkward or unworkable affair, with respect to a king and his court during this age.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 07:07 AM   #28

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What was described as debauchery, at this time, was in fact nookie with nuns in various nunneries, found throughout the country! Whether this was to an excessive extent is arguable. The reality may be, it may have left formal marriage a somewhat awkward or unworkable affair, with respect to a king and his court during this age.
King Aethelbald of the Mercians 716 to 757 was criticised for not marrying and having affairs with nuns.

In fact, it seems rules and discipline in Anglo-Saxon nunneries were fairly lax, particularly for high-ranking ecclesiastical women. Bishop Aldhelm complained about nuns for wearing "fine linen shirts, in scarlet or blue tunics, in necklines and sleeves embroidered with silk; their shoes are trimmed with red leather; the hair of their forelocks and the curls at their temples and crimped with a curling iron; dark-grey veils for their head give way to bright and coloured head-dresses which are sewn with interlaces of ribbons and hang down as far as the ankles. Fingernails are sharpened after the manner of falcons or hawks."

In the late tenth-century, St Edith of Wilton was admonished by Bishop Athelwold of Winchester for wearing such finery saying, "When Christ was interested only in the heart." Edith quickly replied, "Quite so, father, and I have given my heart".
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Old November 20th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #29

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So early 21st century morality should equate with 10th century morality?
No, and I am not sure how you made that inference.

It comes down to Orwellian doubletalk, war is peace. To rule a nation you can't be at peace. People who are peace reject power in the first place and this axiom applies to any period. Even Ashoka wasn't peaceful at first.

My larger point is getting lost in all this. Monikers should not be scrutinized to this level as the historian gains no new knowledge. Simply conclude if the moniker was meant to be complimentary or injurious and move on.

Edgar the Peaceful - compliment
Aethelred the Unready - insult
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Old November 20th, 2017, 11:20 AM   #30

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What was described as debauchery, at this time, was in fact nookie with nuns in various nunneries, found throughout the country! Whether this was to an excessive extent is arguable. The reality may be, it may have left formal marriage a somewhat awkward or unworkable affair, with respect to a king and his court during this age.
The Catholic Church condoned mistresses in the medieval period, since they knew kings had urges, and that any children resulting would not be legitimate kings. It would have been common to have it with one's queen and many female members of the court (or servants, or slaves).
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