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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old January 1st, 2018, 11:31 AM   #81
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The term 'Byzantine' was coined by historians based off of the capital's name at the time the empire was founded, Byzantion in Greek and Byzantium in Latin. Eastern Roman Empire sounds like a mouthful so that name is used instead for simplicity's sake. This isn't something all that new. Today, we often reference countries by their administrative capital e.g. "Moscow is looking to improve ties with the United States". The term Kievan Rus' was also not used by the natives (they called their country Rus'), but that term was coined based off the capital of the region to distinguish it from later periods of Rus' history.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 10:46 AM   #82

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It's not incorrect to refer to the Eastern Empire as the 'Byzantine Empire' since it's the only way we could distinguish the medieval empire from the ancient one.

Using the name 'Roman Empire' for medieval Byzantium would create confusion.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 03:32 AM   #83
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Well the Byzantines refered to themselves as Romans as well as most other peoples such as the Arabs, Turks etc. I think a better term would be the Eastern Roman Empire, or the Christian Roman Empire, though the latter would surly become confused with the Holy Roman Empire.

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It's not incorrect to refer to the Eastern Empire as the 'Byzantine Empire' since it's the only way we could distinguish the medieval empire from the ancient one.

Using the name 'Roman Empire' for medieval Byzantium would create confusion.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:30 AM   #84

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Well the Byzantines refered to themselves as Romans as well as most other peoples such as the Arabs, Turks etc. I think a better term would be the Eastern Roman Empire, or the Christian Roman Empire, though the latter would surly become confused with the Holy Roman Empire.
The Eastern Roman Empire is suitable only for a period up to 476. After that, it was indeed, just Roman Empire.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 01:21 PM   #85
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No. The generalization of the Greek language was finalized around 640 during Heraklius. Justinian was still using Latin; Heraklius only in diplomatic correspondence.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 01:28 PM   #86
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They never called themselves but Romns / Romanoi in Greek. It as a political issue mainly. Being The Empire they held titles on all the land of the previous united Roman Empire. Also, the Emperor (even under 2 or 4 "natures") was just one as the Empire indivisible. The Emperor was equal to the Church (Give to the Caesar what belongs to the Caesar etc.) and the Christian World bi-cephalic. This is why the Roman Aqvila got two heads after Christianization. Under all the legal and religious aspects, the coronation of Carol and then the one of Otto were illegal, the Pope giving something it as not his to give. So, they were allways "the" Roman Empire.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 02:33 PM   #87
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It was purely prejudice, discrimination, scorn and denial by Western Europeans from the 9th century and 20th century that they couldn't accepted the fact the ERE was truly a successor and continuation of the Roman empire. All due too the burdensome schism that blinded all political and religious factions because they just want a punching bag. Hieronymous Wulf for some unknown reason hated the ERE and coined up the name Byzantine and only viewed the HRE as the sole successor which we know in fact is not. Even the catholic church knew of this to be true but pretended otherwise.

Everyone in the east (and eastern Europe) called and referred to the ERE and Byzantines as Romans. The Turks, Persians, Moors, and Arabs called them RŪM (Romans), the ERE as Rūmelia (Land of the Romans) or Millet-i Rum (Roman Nation), and Constantinople as Kustantiniyyah. Whereas the Judeo-Iberians called it Kostantina. But the orientation never used such derogatory insult like the use "Byzantine" or "Medieval Greek" nor profanity to the Eastern Romans. Sure there were conflict and diplomatic disagreements on both sides. However none of them never spoke such.

There was one moment in time where the HRE and ERE almost had a union through Otto III. By sadly his death came sudden.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:00 PM   #88

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Is the Greek ethnicity of the empire really that relevant in this discussion? Rome had a long history of incorporating foreigners into their empire and giving them Roman citizenship. With Caracella giving Roman citizenship to everyone in the empire you could argue being a Roman isn't about nationality or ethnicity but about holding Roman citizenship which the Greeks certainly did.

The eastern part of the Roman empire didn't fall with the west nor did the east and west divide grant the east independence from the Roman empire. It was just the Roman empire in the east and up until the fourth crusade or even the final fall of Constantinople the eastern Roman empire hadn't fallen. The Eastern Romans that emerged from the split between east and west were still around after the fall of the West, after the Muslim invasions and after the crusades so I don't think there is cause to deny them their Roman identity save for convenience. Its true most Romans wouldn't have recognized the byzantine empire but the founder fathers would have a hard time recognizing present day America too should they have lived long enough to see it.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 04:14 AM   #89

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No. The generalization of the Greek language was finalized around 640 during Heraklius. Justinian was still using Latin; Heraklius only in diplomatic correspondence.
.

Just in time to force everyone to move to arabic in the Middle East!
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Old January 5th, 2018, 07:15 AM   #90

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No. The generalization of the Greek language was finalized around 640 during Heraklius. Justinian was still using Latin; Heraklius only in diplomatic correspondence.
Justinian's novellae are in Greek.

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.

Just in time to force everyone to move to arabic in the Middle East!
Well, except for those using Armenian, Coptic, Syriac, or Hebrew, or those early Islamic documents in Greek.
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