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Old December 11th, 2017, 07:07 AM   #1
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Why did they find Phoecician Ruins in the Azores


Is it possible that boats in the ancient world crossed the Atlantic.
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Old December 11th, 2017, 07:23 AM   #2

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It's honestly not very likely.

Roman Exploration of America?

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Old December 11th, 2017, 12:33 PM   #3

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Explorer Thor Heyerdahl sailed a papyrus reed boat from the west coast of Africa to Barbados, sometime around 1970, to prove it could be done.
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Old December 11th, 2017, 01:40 PM   #4

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Phoenician ... not "Phoecician", I think.

I remember I read something about.

Now, a part the difficulty to find those isle by case [the Azores are far from the European coasts and not so obviously on the routes heading West ... overall there were no routes heading West in the age of the Phoenicians!], if Carthage found the Azores they would have kept them.

Also in ancient time, knowing the existence of those isles, it was possible to create colonies and to keep in touch with them. Difficult, but not impossible. So that the Romans would have known about the Azores and after Phoenicians the legionaries would have settled there.

But this didn't happen.
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Old December 11th, 2017, 03:20 PM   #5

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I thought they only found coins. What ruins do you speak of?
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Old December 12th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
Phoenician ... not "Phoecician", I think.

I remember I read something about.

Now, a part the difficulty to find those isle by case [the Azores are far from the European coasts and not so obviously on the routes heading West ... overall there were no routes heading West in the age of the Phoenicians!], if Carthage found the Azores they would have kept them.

Also in ancient time, knowing the existence of those isles, it was possible to create colonies and to keep in touch with them. Difficult, but not impossible. So that the Romans would have known about the Azores and after Phoenicians the legionaries would have settled there.

But this didn't happen.
I caught a programme on this. I thought the gist was - and we had similar conversations about Madeira - that they weren't much use, being the windswept end of the world.

Either that or people were stranded there and never found?
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Old December 12th, 2017, 05:10 PM   #7

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Explorer Thor Heyerdahl sailed a papyrus reed boat from the west coast of Africa to Barbados, sometime around 1970, to prove it could be done.
Heyerdahl started from Morocco, not Egypt. He knew there was land across the Atlantic. His first attempt failed, and the crew would have died without modern communication technology. The second ship still wasn't sturdy enough to make a round trip, nor could it have carried enough supplies for a round trip.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 06:30 AM   #8

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Heyerdahl started from Morocco, not Egypt. He knew there was land across the Atlantic. His first attempt failed, and the crew would have died without modern communication technology. The second ship still wasn't sturdy enough to make a round trip, nor could it have carried enough supplies for a round trip.
Right, and that makes several points that people seem to miss in all these discussions.

First and foremost, there was NO REASON to go sailing off into the unknown Atlantic! Any adventurous fishermen who went a couple days out would have reported only more empty ocean, as would anyone blown off-course who happened to make it back to Europe or Africa. Ships were EXPENSIVE. They were used for profitable ventures, and were already at risk of sinking or wrecking. So if you own a ship, you send it ONLY to places where you know you can make some money! Established trade ports, rich fishing grounds, etc. Any wealthy man back then simply wanted to stay wealthy, or get wealthier, and sending a small fortune off into the sunset and just hoping that there is something out there would be the literal definition of insanity. It's like jumping off a building and hoping you land in a big pile of money.

As for the "maybe blown off course" idea, I'm sure it happened sometimes. But ships on their regular runs simply did not carry enough food and water for the crew to survive a trip across the Atlantic. Even assuming they happened to hit the right winds and currents! They're going to die. If they hit the right storm, they'll be lucky enough to drown before they starve.

Yes, Heyerdahl made it across. With what, 4 guys? Yay, mighty Heyerdahl Empire! Not. Sure, a couple modern crazy people have rowed solo or swum across, with all kinds of modern safety equipment, support vessels, doctors on call, etc. And most importantly, THEY KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GOING.

Go ahead, go up to the roof of your workplace or apartment building, run to the edge and jump. I'm sure that pile of money is waiting for you.

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Old December 14th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #9

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This reminds me of the guy who bet that the glass window of the high sky scraper he worked in wouldn't break. He took a run up at the glass and threw himself against it, to prove his point. The glass didn't break but the frame that held the glass in place did. He fell to his death many floors below, technically winning the bet but costing him his life.
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Old December 16th, 2017, 01:12 AM   #10

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As said above, the substance is that now we know where to go and we know how to get there also using ancient techs [because we can use it at their best]. Today we know seasonal weather [so that a travel though the Atlantic can be planned to avoid the season of the hurricanes, just to say] and we've got a deep knowledge of the circulation of the winds, of the streams ...

Regarding what they found on those isles, it was 1749 when an English expedition found coins of Phoenician origin [from IV century BCE].

I have made a little research an in maps dated XIV century [one in the Medici library, dated 1351 CE, and the other is the Catalan Map] there is an archipelago in the right place. The Catalan Map gives a name to three isles: Corvo, Flores and Sao Jorge.

Even if when the Portuguese colonists reached the isles they were uninhabited, there were traces of an ancient presence. This made someone think to the Lucky Isles beyond the Hercules columns, mentioned by Homer, Plutarch [who puts them 10,000 stadi West of Africa, about 1,600km] and others.

The coins found by the sailors of an English vessels were from IV century BCE, from Tyre and Sidon [they were made by gold, silver and copper]. But we haven't got physical evidences to check.

The most intriguing clue of an ancient presence on the isles had found by the Portuguese explorers: an equestrian statue with an inscription on the base. It wasn't possible to read the inscription and ... unfortunately ... the King of Portugal ordered to remove it in XVI century and the workers broke it ... the statue and the inscription have disappeared.

Anyway ...

They would have seen that statue between 1449 and 1460. In that period there were who wrote about oddities on the isles Graciosa, Fayal and Flores. Why there are no mentions of the statue?

A traveler [we know the surname, Boid, mentioned in the volume 91 of the Italian Library - Magazine of Science and Art] made the hypothesis that actually the "statue" was a natural formation on the isle of Corvo. He said to have seem a promontory which can look like a person on a horse indicating a direction. Humboldt added that in a volcanic environment curious formations of rock can be present and be misinterpreted by explorers.

Now, this find has been reminded in history and it has been discussed
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