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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old January 11th, 2018, 10:24 AM   #11
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It is not exactly medieval but it seems really acurate. Troy: Fall of a City (TV Series 2017? ) - IMDb
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Old January 11th, 2018, 11:45 AM   #12

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Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
Except that Name of the Rose is fiction. So hard to get wrong!

A lot of Hollywood movies - especially in the heyday of Hollywood, seem to combine some surprisingly accurate stuff with some absolute bunkum. Nowadays it can just be all bunkum (Troy, Alexander, Braveheart)

I think it's originally because they would have a historical adviser, but then rip it all up at times because the scriptwriters or director didn't like it for the audience.

'El Cid' is probably a classic of such a film. It sort of conveys the fact that Spanish Christians and Spanish muslims bot had to fight the invading menace of the black-veiled, black-hearted Almoravids from Africa. It conveys his exiles from Castille but gets the reasons wrong, it shows his little daughters and the wife's exiles but leaves out the son, Diego. Worst of all it gives him the Hollywood ending of death in battle, which he certainly didn't!
The Name of the Rose is fiction, but the historical reconstruction is accurate, just because is based on a work by the missing Umberto Eco ["The Lord of Semiotics"].

He made a terrific job to recreate the environment of a medieval monastery and how the real inquisition worked.

About Hollywood, Charlton Heston has played in some interesting historical movies focused in the Middle Ages. Now ... "El Cid" was a typical "Hollywood event", but "The War Lord" is an interesting product [and not that known around].
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Old January 11th, 2018, 11:53 AM   #13

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"The Lion in Winter" is alright if you don't look too closely at it.
I had thought of The Lion in Winter and it certainly looks the part; but I don't think it is all that accurate when it comes to the relations between Henry and his sons. But I need to see it again soon.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #14

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I always founf The War Lord somehow typical. No castle, but a single tower, nasty Frisians and everything pretty light on luxury.
It is an oldie, but I really liked it.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:45 AM   #15

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Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
The Name of the Rose is fiction, but the historical reconstruction is accurate, just because is based on a work by the missing Umberto Eco ["The Lord of Semiotics"].

He made a terrific job to recreate the environment of a medieval monastery and how the real inquisition worked.

About Hollywood, Charlton Heston has played in some interesting historical movies focused in the Middle Ages. Now ... "El Cid" was a typical "Hollywood event", but "The War Lord" is an interesting product [and not that known around].
Charlton Heston was one of that genre of Hollywood stars who played the same part every film, because he fitted the hero part.

The list of such stars is long, which is why real actors stand out!
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:28 AM   #16

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General rule of thumb: Everything in the movies is WRONG. Now, once in a while, something more or less accurate might slip in by accident, but please don't let that spoil your enjoyment of the film.

Clothing and visual settings are the EASIEST thing for a movie-maker to get right, there are COUNTLESS pictoral and written sources. Even if a producer used nothing better than a dodgy $15 Osprey book for his costume and armor guide, he'd be making the most historically accurate movie ever. I suspect that explains the basically good look of Alexander. I haven't seen much else that even comes close.

But accuracy is going to be even farther out the window in regards to plot and character motivations, WHY people do what they do. These days, historical movies are basically modern socio-political commentary mashed into an ancient setting, completely trampling the actual events and mindsets of the time. No, Spartacus and William Wallace were NOT screaming "FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMM!!!!" as their battle cries, in fact they would have laughed or been horrified at our modern concepts of freedom. You simply can't have historical people chanting modern buzzwords and call it history. Things were DIFFERENT back then.

Admittedly, I just haven't seen many "medieval" movies lately, but the stills and clips that have gone around are generally appalling. Or utter fantasy.

Stick with "Game of Thrones."

Matthew
Although I basically agree with you and I just want to fast forward when I see some Spartacus scream “Freedom for the slaves”, even if he has a somewhat right outfit loosely based on a somewhat right Osprey book, it is just out of context, but I think that there is plenty of space for Historical fiction in the Cinema, books, theater, and even for Medieval fairs that are not much common in the summer in many European historical cities.

A bit like John said about “The Name of the Rose”. It is Fiction, so it is hard to get it wrong. In the book Humberto Eco, a Medievalist, gave us an idea of what could have been a monastery in that period. It allowed him to more liberty than in his academic works. Fiction allows that. We just have to know that it is Fiction even if it his Historical Fiction.

But even in fantasy works, like the “Game of Thrones”, characters must be fleshed and have their plot coherency and their motivations, that is why sometimes some fantasy works seem more Medieval than a bad Medieval fiction work.

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Flesh and Blood was always a bit grim I thought. No idea how accurate it was on the Condottierri period in Italy.
I think that the grim fitted the idea that we have of the time period. Rutger Hauer around that date, in 1985, made another interesting quasi Medieval movie, with Michelle Pfeiffer, albeit with some fantasy elements: Ladyhawke.



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Charlton Heston was one of that genre of Hollywood stars who played the same part every film, because he fitted the hero part.

The list of such stars is long, which is why real actors stand out!
Agreed. In the case of Charlton Heston, the mentioned “El Cid” (and in some way also “The War Lord”) are good examples, even if in The War Lord sometimes seems more a anti-hero. Anyway I am particularly fond of “El Cid” because is one of the few (or maybe the only) big productions about the Medieval Iberia.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:49 AM   #17
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Sorry. I should've been clearer. I don't mind the fiction of the story if the lifestyles and technology are correct.
It is easier to pin down the inacurracies in events. To know if the wardrobe, weaponry, eating and social habits etc... correspond to that particular time and place requires a bit more research and precision and the info is not always available or is easy to find.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 03:40 AM   #18
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To give an example of the above there are some French TV shows from the 60's and 70's based on Dumas novels, like Les Compagnons de Jehu, Le Comte de Monte-Cristo, Les Mohican Paris, La Dame de Monsoreau, etc... From the wardrobe, to the furniture and utensils, every single detail, it looks like visiting a museum, everything looks genuine and from old days, I remember seeing some bed coverings and pillows that look pretty impressive or watching all the display of old wine and liquor bottles at inns like in a scene from the Mopnte-Cristo show, but the thing is are they from that particular period and time or 50 years, 100 years, 150 years away or simply contemporary objects with odd shapes, it requires a very specialized knowledge or a much more thorough investigation to find that than simply checking the events.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #19

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Originally Posted by Yḥānān View Post
To give an example of the above there are some French TV shows from the 60's and 70's based on Dumas novels, like Les Compagnons de Jehu, Le Comte de Monte-Cristo, Les Mohican Paris, La Dame de Monsoreau, etc... From the wardrobe, to the furniture and utensils, every single detail, it looks like visiting a museum, everything looks genuine and from old days, I remember seeing some bed coverings and pillows that look pretty impressive or watching all the display of old wine and liquor bottles at inns like in a scene from the Mopnte-Cristo show, but the thing is are they from that particular period and time or 50 years, 100 years, 150 years away or simply contemporary objects with odd shapes, it requires a very specialized knowledge or a much more thorough investigation to find that than simply checking the events.
Roberto Rossellini made some TV movies shown in Italy and France in the 1970sthat certainly look authentic re The Age of the Medici, Rene Descartes and Blaise Pascal.
Are they authentic? As you say, to determine that would require a detailed study. They're as close as I've seen to authentic depictions of these important men and their times. Of course, they're not Medieval, but early modern.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:21 AM   #20

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'Andrei Rublev' (which is a stone cold masterpiece whether it's 'accurate' or not) Andrei Rublev (1966) - IMDb
This is a freaking master peace. If you want to get not only historical recreation but also a recreation of mentalities and moods, this is the thing.
Other hold be Bergman's Seventh Seal.
No film comprises better the feeling of death in medieval world.
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