A History of Medieval Russia - Page 3 - Historum

**irishcrusader95** · August 17th, 2011, 10:31 AM

the people inhabiting the areas may have been descendants of the nomadic tribes that inhabited the areas during roman times. with just wide open plains in the steeps they probably would have been very spread out. there was the volga bulgars who lived very far east and were conquered by the mongols, i wonder what their specific origin was?

**arras** · August 17th, 2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishcrusader95

the people inhabiting the areas may have been descendants of the nomadic tribes that inhabited the areas during roman times. with just wide open plains in the steeps they probably would have been very spread out. there was the volga bulgars who lived very far east and were conquered by the mongols, i wonder what their specific origin was?

Volga Bulgars were Turkic people.

However Rusian states did not emerge on those open plains and steeps. Rather in woods and marshes of what is now North Central Russia. Those were newer inhabited by nomadic people. Plains of Southern and Eastern Russia and Ukraine were incorporated in to Russia only later.

Russians did have extensive contacts with nomadic people like Chazars, Bulgars, Pechenegs, Magyars and others and they did influence emerging Russian states. They however did not made population of those states at the time Russia was emerging.

Early Russian states were made up from Slavic tribes perhaps with few Finic and Scandinavian people added.

**arras** · August 17th, 2011, 12:17 PM

Russian people have in fact quit high frequencies of Y-chromozome DNA haplogrup R1a and within it especialy R1a1 which is considered Slavic and Arian (Iranians and Indians). Which means Russians did not mix much with other non Slavic people ...contrary to former beliefs.

Slavic peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ktisis · August 24th, 2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lors

It used to be just another a plain conquest. Check this state and his fate as example.
Novgorod Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Actually the majority of Russians lived in Polish-Lithuanian state, not in Moscowy.
I would agree with Castille and Aragon situation, but not with those ones.

You forgot to write why Russians began to live in this country (in Polish-Lithuanian state). And what did you mean by "a majority"?

Quote:

Check this state

I`d call it "an autonomous part" of Rus`.

ktisis · August 24th, 2011, 07:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Mosquito

Not majority of Russians but Ruthenians, who didnt identify themselves with the Grand Duchy of Moscow and later so called Russia

You are wrong. They did. Especially after Poland and Lithuania concluded a union. Before that Lithuania was more Russian and orthodox state than Lithuanian and pagan. It was identify as one of centers of consolidation of Rus`. I`d say more - Vilnius had all chances to become the capital of the united Russia. But after Lithuania adopted catholicism and Polish ways, Moscow became the only defender of Russian lands and the orthodoxy in their eyes.

ktisis · September 14th, 2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin_Briggs

The fact remains, though. Kievan Rus was the first state / quasi state. It brought the religion, the laws, united many of the tribes, etc.

What was changed when a capital was moved in Kiev?

**irishcrusader95** · September 14th, 2011, 03:11 PM

Kievan Rus is seen as the first state in russia, its also the first time that people began to refer to people as the 'Rus' and so that start of the national identity.

Austin_Briggs · September 14th, 2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishcrusader95

Kievan Rus is seen as the first state in russia, its also the first time that people began to refer to people as the 'Rus' and so that start of the national identity.

Exactly my point from another thread

ktisis · September 14th, 2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishcrusader95

Kievan Rus is seen as the first state in russia, its also the first time that people began to refer to people as the 'Rus' and so that start of the national identity.

The problem is people of Kievan Rus' had never heard about Kievan Rus'. For a long time this was population of lands under rus' rule. Integration processes passed into limits this qvasi-srate of Rurik. And before Kiev, and after its decline. Kievan Rus' is just an episode of the history of Old Rus'. Not first one, Not last.

**irishcrusader95** · September 15th, 2011, 06:10 AM

while russian history can be seen as bagining with the settelemnt of people from scandnavia, the vanguardians as they were called there. russian statehood began with Kievan Rus as for the first time people began refering to people as the 'Rus'