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Old September 13th, 2011, 02:43 AM   #1

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Crusades


A recent documentry regarding the fighting for a fort in the holy land, highlighted the remains found after excavation and the injuries recieved. one fact that came to the fore, was the protection that chainmail provided.
The wounds found on the remains indicate penetration of chainmail through to the bone. This has changed my idea's a little regarding this form of armour. I have always thought that mail gave better protection than what is now apparent. What is the forum's opinion?.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 04:26 AM   #2

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Saw the documentary (Ch4? available on 4oD) and enjoyed it.

Mail was used for a very longtime so had to be effective, we do not know how powerful the blow was compared to 'average' blows.

I wonder how did they know the order of the injuries as some didn't make sense to me.
eg the knight had his jaw broken, then lost the use of his shield hand, I would have thought it would be the other way round.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 04:49 AM   #3

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Was it Thomas Asbridge and the siege of Jacobs Ford by chance?
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Old September 13th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #4

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Was it Thomas Asbridge and the siege of Jacobs Ford by chance?
Yes it was. as far as documentrys are concerned, I thought it excellent.
As Kevinmeath just pointed out, it is hard to appreciate how the order of injury's was calculated.

What I found astonishing was the penetration by a sword (scimitar), through the mail. In addition, an arrow through the throat portion of the Halberk. I have obviously been under a different impression, thinking that mail would ward off almost all but the heaviest blows. how wrong I was.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #5

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Is this the 'Back from the dead' documentary on the Crusades ?
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #6

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Quote:
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Yes it was. as far as documentrys are concerned, I thought it excellent.
As Kevinmeath just pointed out, it is hard to appreciate how the order of injury's was calculated.

What I found astonishing was the penetration by a sword (scimitar), through the mail. In addition, an arrow through the throat portion of the Halberk. I have obviously been under a different impression, thinking that mail would ward off almost all but the heaviest blows. how wrong I was.
Debate ensues, source material regularly describes the effectivenss of mail against such weapons, knights described resembling hedgehogs and all that.

The problem is knowing how the wounds were received and under what conditions. If such wounds came under regular battle conditions then it would indeed be rather shocking. However if not, then it may be a different case.

As I recall Saladin having undermined the unfinished walls entered the castle and so sacked the place. Some 700 Templars et al. die as a result. Die in battle or die from perhaps execution?

Mail may very well stop a limb being hacked off, but the kinetic energy has to go somewhere.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:02 AM   #7

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Wrong thread - ignore.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:04 AM   #8

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Quote:
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Is this the 'Back from the dead' documentary on the Crusades ?
I am not sure of the title halo, I tuned into it by accident.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #9

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Ok ,it sounds like it is that,which i have recorded at home,the last episode is on the Samurai's next week.
I will come back to this thread when i've watched it.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:13 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
Debate ensues, source material regularly describes the effectivenss of mail against such weapons, knights described resembling hedgehogs and all that.

The problem is knowing how the wounds were received and under what conditions. If such wounds came under regular battle conditions then it would indeed be rather shocking. However if not, then it may be a different case.

As I recall Saladin having undermined the unfinished walls entered the castle and so sacked the place. Some 700 Templars et al. die as a result. Die in battle or die from perhaps execution?

Mail may very well stop a limb being hacked off, but the kinetic energy has to go somewhere.
The Historians would have us believe that these 'warrior monks' (Templars)fought to the death. However I still got a 'Hollywood feeling' watching this, the adreneline factor must have been high. To sustain grevious injury's like that and, still carry on fighting stretches the imagination. I may be wrong.

With chainmail easily penetrated like that, my appreciation of other major medieval battles will change.
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