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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #21

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May be they didn't have reason to save Constantinopolis?

If I were a king of France, I wouldn't be eager to waste my power towards Turks. After defeat of European army in Balkan.

Last edited by Efendi; January 15th, 2012 at 01:30 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #22

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How do we say Catholics betrayed Ortodoxy? Were they ally?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #23

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I wonder If he sent a message, letter to the Sultan and got a reply. I would like to read the letter if there are.
I don't think he ever sent a message. The Burgundians just fancied themselves as perfect chivalric knights, that was all. They had a very rich court in which chivalric novels were very popular, tournaments were frequent etc. The duke himself was always surrounded by young nobles eager to prove themselves as knights. But under philip the good, in fact, they only fought against Dutch rebels. It was all show and no substance.

The burgundians did command a crusade though, but it was fifty years earlier, and they were assisted by eastern and central Europeans (poles, hungarians etc.). It was defeated at Nicopolis in 1396, mainly because of the chivalric delirium of the Burgundians.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #24
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How do we say Catholics betrayed Ortodoxy? Were they ally?
hello efendi,

At the time of Constantine (330AD) they and all other Christianity in the Roman sphere were one. When he died the Bishop of Rome and other Bureaucrats sought to regain their powers and move it back to Rome from Constantinople. What insued was a bitter battle for the control of Christianity and they split in 1054 which is called the "Schism" .
The Schism of the Roman Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox: 1054-1954
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #25
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That will be the right thing to do because those FrenchCanadians are really your actual ancestors now and not the ones from France.
I find it funny that someone who's not from Québec has enough assurance to openly comment the origins of someone who is. You tell me who my ancestors are? You either think I'm some kind of piece of ****, or you really want history to be as you want.

My ancestors are not French, you are right, but they are not the first people that were dropped off here, as you probably think they are. My ''ancestors'' are my grand-grand parents, that I've heard about from my grand-parents when I asked them questions about their lives. They're my parents who raised me and my family that I grew up seeing.

I don't have the pretention, like Thessalonian, to love something lost in a distant past that I will never be able to really know. It's fine to identify to a group, yes, but to use it to distort history? I have my doubts.


As for the ideologies, I have nothing against nationalism, or any other ism's. I have a problem when they become one with a serious discipline that tries to demystify the past. Thessalonian made it seem like the Crusades could be dumped down to a simple formula, and my problem was more with that than with his blind love of lineage.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #26

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Thessalonian made it seem like the Crusades could be dumped down to a simple formula, and my problem was more with that than with his blind love of lineage.
One must be cautious of simple formulas
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #27

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Two big crusades took place before the siege of Constantinople to kick out the Ottomans from Europe and Balkans, Nicopolis and Varna as mentioned by other members here, both were curicial but both were failed...
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Old January 15th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #28
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How do we say Catholics betrayed Ortodoxy? Were they ally?
Nominally against the Turks I suppose, but in reality they were not. It wasn't so much a betrayal as business as usual.

Everyone was stabbing everyone else in the back at that time. The Byzantines were the ones who invited the Turks into Europe in the first place to fight their civil war, and the Orthodox Serbians delivered the knockout blow against the crusaders at Nicopolis.

Not to mention the actions of other Orthodox kingdoms like the Bulgarians taking advantage of the Byzantine Empire's decline.

This is not to excuse Western actions like the sack of Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade, or maritime Italian powers fighting their wars on Byzantine territory, but there was little love lost between both sides.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #29

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Ottomans got the best chance to conquer Constantinople at the very best time.Byzantine was weak and the rest of Europe had their own problems to deal.
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