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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:36 AM   #31

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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Are you serious? Certainly it could not have been the French, because the Franks, who gave their name to the country, had not inhabited the country until AD 486. Or are you implying that some cave men who lived in what is now known as France somehow managed to make it to North America? Do tell.
Only semi serious. There is a theory about that the Solutrian[?] culture of what is now south west France managed to cross the Atlantic along the rim of the pack ice and brought the Clovis point to what is now America between 30,000 and 15,000BCE. The Clovis point artifacts define the first human colonisation of the continent at around 15,000BCE.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 05:32 AM   #32

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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Only semi serious. There is a theory about that the Solutrian[?] culture of what is now south west France managed to cross the Atlantic along the rim of the pack ice and brought the Clovis point to what is now America between 30,000 and 15,000BCE. The Clovis point artifacts define the first human colonisation of the continent at around 15,000BCE.

Hmmm. Interesting.
Did these people have red hair by any chance
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:26 AM   #33
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Re: Who really discovered North America?


Well, do you really think that this is the only fiction in history book? I think not. At least the one I have...OH MY GOD!
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Old May 5th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #34
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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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Only semi serious. There is a theory about that the Solutrian[?] culture of what is now south west France managed to cross the Atlantic along the rim of the pack ice and brought the Clovis point to what is now America between 30,000 and 15,000BCE. The Clovis point artifacts define the first human colonisation of the continent at around 15,000BCE.
Yes I've heard of it. And I also heard that it wasn't only the Clovis point, but also the DNA research proved that a quarter of one old American tribe (dunno which) shared genes that pointed towards Western Europe.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 07:20 AM   #35

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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DNA research proved that a quarter of one old American tribe (dunno which) shared genes that pointed towards Western Europe.
The so-called X haplotype of mRNA. I believe it is thought to be from Eastern Europe, but it is a Caucasian genetic marker nonetheless. Maybe a branch of ancient Israelites who migrated just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon during the reign of Zedekiah?
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Old May 5th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #36
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Re: Who really discovered North America?


It is quite possible
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Old June 10th, 2008, 10:47 AM   #37

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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Today the US, China, Japan, and India all have larger economies than any European states.
In 2007, the U.S. lost its place to the European Union (single free market) as the world's largest economy. The EU's economy produced $14.4 trillion in goods and services, while U.S. GDP came in at $13.86 trillion.
The next largest is China, at $7 trillion, followed by Japan at $4 trillion.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:20 AM   #38

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


If the question is about which europeans got there first, then Saint Brendan the Irish monk probably discovered America. If it happened, this would have occurred in around 512-530 AD. there could also have been colonies of irish monks there continuosly over a long period.
there are 3 references in the norse sagas to the irish monks in the new world. Erics saga has a report of 2 Skraelings (native americans) that they knew of men near their tribe who wore white clothes and marched in procession carrying poles and chanting. Eric deduced that they were irish monks.
the icelandic Landnamabok tells of a sailor who was driven west by gales to Vinland where he was baptised by irish monks.
finally there is a report of a norse trader Gudleifr Gunnlaugsson who was driven west by gales to an unknown shore where he said that he encountered irish monks.
the vikings themselves had no problem acknowleding the presence of irish monks in america. After all when the norsemen arrived first in the Hebrides, Faroes and Iceland they found irish monks there before them so why not america as well?
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Old June 10th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #39

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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If the question is about which europeans got there first, then Saint Brendan the Irish monk probably discovered America.
I think "probably" might really be stretching things quite alot.

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Erics saga has a report of 2 Skraelings (native americans) that they knew of men near their tribe who wore white clothes and marched in procession carrying poles and chanting. Eric deduced that they were irish monks.
If Vikings thought anyone wearing white clothes, marching around with poles and chanting, was an Irish monk - then it's no wonder they encountered them everywhere.

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After all when the norsemen arrived first in the Hebrides, Faroes and Iceland they found irish monks there before them so why not america as well?
This seems rather natural in the Hebrides and possibly even the Faroes. The Hebrides are a bit of a trip from Scandinavia, but a stone's throw from Ireland. The Faroes are not that far from the Scottish coast.

The evidence for any presence in Iceland is totally lacking. There's a few dubious passages in some of the sagas that suggest the possibility, depending on how it's interpreted ... but that's the whole of it.

It ought to be noted that although it was not technically impossible, it is extraordinarily unlikely that the Irish made it either to Iceland or the New World. The Irish peoples, prior to the arrival of Viking settlers and other invaders, were anything but a seafaring peoples. Practically all of the coastal settlements in Ireland were founded as colonies by Vikings or Normans.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #40

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Re: Who really discovered North America?


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This seems rather natural in the Hebrides and possibly even the Faroes. The Hebrides are a bit of a trip from Scandinavia, but a stone's throw from Ireland. The Faroes are not that far from the Scottish coast.
there is strong evidence that the irish monks or papar where in the Faroes according to this from wikipedia:

There are also several toponyms relating to the papar in the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_islands"]Faroe islands[/ame].
Amongst these are Paparøkur near [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestmanna"]Vestmanna[/ame], and Papurshílsur near [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saksun"]Saksun[/ame]. Vestmanna itself is short for Vestmannahøvn, meaning "harbour of the Westmen" or Irish.
In Skúvoy, a certain churchyard also has tombstones which display a possible Celtic origin, or at least influence.

since iceland is closer to the faroes than ireland why would they not get there? i dont think it is that big a stretch they could have island hopped all the way to america, if they could get to the faroes then they could get to iceland then to greenland and then america. the prevailing ocean current brings you all the way from iceland to newfoundland. i know of course you are right that there is no proof, only mentions in ancient sagas. still they must have been crazy to get even as far as the faroes in those tiny leather boats.
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