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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old May 1st, 2012, 06:26 PM   #11
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As other's pointed out, it's difficult to generalize over a long period, though it is true that in their hey day around the 9th-11th C, Andalusia was amongst the best off region in Europe, having both a strong agricultural base and strong trade with a wide region, and was also the center of much philosophical thinking.

Until the later middle ages, Andalusia / Northern Italy / the Core region of the Byzantium were generally considered to be the most "advanced" region so to speak.
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Old May 1st, 2012, 07:36 PM   #12

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Maybe Spain did not champion Catholicism around the world.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 07:45 PM   #13

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Maybe Spain did not champion Catholicism around the world.

Sorry?
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:25 PM   #14

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The reports of harmony between Jews, Muslims and Christians, along with prosperity indicate that all was well. But, there must have been more to this period. I'm hoping members who are more familiar with this will share some details.

Al-Andalus was far from being a paradise during most of its history. People often believe that culture thrive in periods of peace and stability, but this was not the case for al-Andalus, or the Italian Renaissance, or the Spanish golden age and so on. The Caliphate of Cordoba was quite peaceful but it did not last for long. Culturally, the period of the Taifas was probably the most brilliant for muslim spain, but it was also an era of uncertainty and permanent conflict, things that could affect people of any background. A muslim like Ibn Hazm could be emprisoned in every state in which he went (or be exiled from it) while a jew like Samuel ibn Nagrela could became one of the most senior officer and civil servant of an emir in Grenada. But on the other hand, Nagrela's son was killed in an anti-jewish pogrom. In military conflicts, christians could ally themselves with muslims against fellow christians, at least until the Almoravids came to power.

For the most part, the muslim period in spain was a period of opportunities but also of uncertainties, with lots of social, political and, yes, religious tensions. Don't forget that Spain was (after the demise of the caliphate) a fragmented region composed of numerous christian and muslim kingdoms. As for the treatment of minorities, it depended on the rulers. The Visigoths were hostile to jews and arians. The Caliphate was indifferent to jews and christians, but so were the christian kingdoms that emerged in northern spain. Some taifas were very favorable to jews (but usually less so to christians), giving them high positions, but others were hostile to them, and the tide could turn quite quickly. The Almoravids were much more oppressive, and the Almohads were simply hostile to any form of religious pluralism. The Christian kingdoms were tolerant of minorities until the 14th century, when they started to implement some forms of segregation.

In any case, there was always one dominant culture, muslim or christian, that more or less accepted the others, and generally accepted them the most when they felt secured enough.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 07:33 AM   #15
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Very complex using historic fonts......Forget all you know.

Use modern genetics.

The 90% of the current population in Spain is descendent from the people who inhabited the Iberian Peninsula ("spain") 20000 years ago and shelted in Ireland, draw in the caves, built the stone structures found in the peninusla, moved to America etc.

So, ¿what?

Peasants were always peasants, first in celtic tribes, then under Roman Empire, later in Visigoth kingdoms, then in Muslim kingdoms, later in Christian kingdoms, finally in the Holy Kingdom of Spain and now in Spain.

The biggest demographic changes in the macro history of Spain are 2:

1 the ejection of the moors
2 modern inmigration.

The first succes derived in a big depopulation of Spain, and using modern genetics again, we can see that in fact, the christians ejected a lot of "european" muslims. Because, while the distintictive DNA of north africans in Spain represents just a 10%. In Morroco/Sahara the distinctive DNA of europeans represents a 30%-35%
.
In that time the hispanic christians stablished the norm:

""old christian"", ""new christian"".

The old christians were the ones who had christian ancestors in at least 4 generations and were able to demostrate it, the new were the others. The term "blue blood" refering to nobel linage dates from that time in Spain, because even the nobels were ejected of Spain if they weren't christian enough.

So...What was the life in Spain while the moors ruled?

Quite similar as always...nice, sunny, warm, humble life, good food, good land for farming, lot of beaches, happy and brisk people, a bit mad etc.
The only difference is that they lived with wars, and now we don't. Spain has been always in wars until the XX century, you can't find a century or even a 1/3 century without a war in Spain before the end of the spanish civil war.

the Iberian Penisnusla was the richest province of the Roman Empire and the epitome of the islamic culture, and then the hard core of the world wide catholicism. There is someting special here, come in holidays, we can say we live as celts/roman/visigoths/moors lived, in fact a lot of taditions, dishes, villages and so date from that times, even from ancient celtic-iberic as the bullfigting.
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