BrowniesRule

I suppose you have no graphs to really prove your point?

Lucius

In American English, the adjective means "complex," and most especially, "overly-complex."

DreamWeaver

While flicking through William of Tyre earlier for a completely different reason I stumbled across the following on Manuel Comnenos

William of Tyre Vol.2 16.21

PyrrhosAlexandrosEllinas.

I am going to sum up some things, some that have already been said, and some new ones, in several points.

First of all, an example. England was settled and colonised and established by England. Of the 21 million citizens of Australia, 11 million have full or considerable English ancestry, or in some cases are born in England and are natives of it. 5 million Australians are of Scottish, Irish, Whelsh, Scotch-Irish, or a mix of all these, or a mix of all these and English, descent, or were born in and are natives of these places. Many Australians are still royalists, and pro British, and pro-Commonwealth. However, using the argument that they call themselves Aussies and not Brits or Poms or English, and that being similar to the Byzantines in relation to not always calling themselves Hellenes, and therefore supposedly not being Greek, has no grounds. It is just a completely different situation. So please don’t bring it up. It is pointless.

1. The Byzantines called themselves Romeos (Roman), Romaioi, (Male Romans), Romoia (Female Roman). Not Roman/Romani/Romanori, which is what the ancient Romans called themselves, and what the other Latin peoples called the Romans, who were of Latin ethnic stock. The above mentioned Byzantine names for a Roman are obviously Greek designations for a citizen of the new Roman Empire or Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium), a Greek citizen, hence the Greek version of the name, and not the original names of Roman/Romanori/Romani. Also, the Greeks called themselves Romeioi/Romeos because it was a recognition of the Roman nature of their empire and the Greek, but also strong Roman history of the Empire. A Greco-Roman culture and history. However, as I will show later, the Byzantines didn't hesitate to call themselves Hellenes/Hellenas when writing literature or literary texts, especially when in historical writings, referring to the ancient Greeks and their exploits as their own(Byzantines), and the ancient Greeks as their own(Byzantines) ancestors.

2. The Byzantine Emperors had Greek names like Heraclios, or Vasili II Vulgaroktanos, or Maurisios. They called themselves Vasilios/Basilios Augustus as did their subjects, and not Ceasar Augustus as the Roman Emperors called themselves and as did their subjects. The official language of the Byzantine Empire was Greek, as was the language of the populace, including minority groups who spoke both Greek and their native tongue, and so almost all the inhabitants of the empire spoke Greek. Even before 610, when the official and administrative language became Greek under Emperor Heraclios' command, most of the populace still spoke Greek. This is despite the official language before 610 being Roman Latin.

3. The names of the most of the cities of the Empire were Greek names.

4. Many hundreds of the thousands of Vikings who regularly visited and came into contact with Byzantines and served in the Varangian Guard often inscribed things on their 'grave rune-stones' like, "I, so and so, served here here and here and raided here here and here and raped who who and who and 'served in the Royal Guard of the Emperor of the Kongriket(Nation/Empire in Scandinavian/Norse) of the Hellenics'". They actually referred to the Byzantines as Hellenics. They had no claim on the Roman tradition like the French/Franks did, so would have been just calling the Byzantines what they really were, without ulterior motives like the Franks, who wanted to be the only heirs of Rome, without the Byzantines.

5. The Byzantine form of warfare was much more closely related to ancient Macedonian Greek warfare then Roman. They had skoutatoui, (from Roman skoutum or shield, but 'atoi' is Greek so dont bother mentioning that), who were basically heavy pikemen like the ancient Greek phalangites but with bigger shields and more amour, but still armed with 5-6 metre long pikes like the phalangites. Cataphractos heavy cavalry, and archers, along with a few other lesser troop types for support. This made for a combined arms approach to their battles and wars, much like ancient Macedonian Greeks like Alexander the Great and his father Phillip II.

6. Therefore the population was of up to 80% or 90% Greek, which you can work out from the village, town and city names, and by taking away the numbers of the historical populations of the minority groups from the modern estimates of the Byzantine Empires population. Also, the core territories of the Empire from circa AD 650 onwards were Italy, Greece and Asia Minor, which were divided up into administrative/military themes, or themata. These were provinces for in depth defence and effective recruitment and mobilisation of troops, that were each under the authority and command of a Strategos, as the Byzantines called them. He had military and civil control over his respective theme. These core territories have been historically ruled and conquered by the Greeks and heavily populated and inhabited and colonised by them for thousands of years before the Eastern Roman or Byzantine Empire. The original locals of these areas were either killed off, displaced, driven off or exiled, or bred out, or all of these actions, by the Greeks. Therefore the overall population during later Byzantine times would have always been mostly Greek.

My point of view in conclusion is that the Byzantine Empire was a Medieval Greek Empire and almost like an early Greek nation-state. In fact, the modern Greek nations of Greece and Greek Cyprus claim to be heirs of Byzantium (Latin), Byzantion (Greek pronunciation).

Kirialax

Impossible to quantify. What is remarkable is that despite Greek becoming an official language in the seventh century (of which too much has been said about; was the eastern half of the Roman Empire not Roman before Diocletian made Latin the official administrative language?) we do not see an influx of Greek names in the sources. Instead, the names of the new elite appear to be Caucasians.

The strategos did not have civil authority in 650.

PyrrhosAlexandrosEllinas.

No. The Eastern half was not Roman before the language change, it was still Greek, as most of the people were Greek Greek-speakers.

Also, Greeks are caucasians my friend.

And okay, I think the strategoi didn't have civil authority before 650, but they did after.

PyrrhosAlexandrosEllinas.

And are you okay with all the other points I made, I assume.

MonomachmosIV

I think he means 'Caucasians' as in people from the Caucasus (Georgia, Ossetia, etc.) not "white" people.

PyrrhosAlexandrosEllinas.

Oh okay, I see. But the caucasians', such as the Armenians, Georgians and Ossetians were in very small numbers in the empire. They did not have a large impact on it. They had an impact, true. But not a large one. Basil II was only part armenian, not whole, and was mostly of Greek blood/origin.

Yaunâ

After the 7th-8th century the Armenians, under the Arab threat, started serving in the Imperial army massively. Armenian families rised (landowners) earlier though, for example Mamikonian (After the 5th century and the Sassanids). A lot of Armenians settled in the Armeniac theme, this eventually led to a mixed Armenian-Greek aristocracy as well. The Armenian aristocracy was gradually assimilated by the Greek aristocracy, especially during the 10th century, since the Armenian influx reduced. However in the 11th century it is estimated that 10-15 % of the Byzantine aristocracy was Armenian (source: the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium). We should note that there was some kind of prejudice from the Greek side towards the Armenians.

Other notable Armenians: Mleh (Melias in Greek), families like the Vourtzides, Theodorokanoi, Dalassinoi, Taronites, Tornikioi, Vrahamioi, Kekaymenoi, known to have acted during the 9th-11th century. The Armenian aristocracy reduced signficantly after the Komenian period, Armenian merchants continued to exist though.

While it's undoubtable that the Greek element was predominant in the Empire, the Armenian one can easily be found in the second place, considering their role in the Empire.