Khazars-Arab wars - Historum

Nadir · May 28th, 2012, 01:31 PM

From wiki:

This was the time when the long series of wars called the Khazar-Arab wars began. These wars largely ended with Arab defeats, with a fairly well-known commander, Abd ar-Rahman ibn Rabiah, perishing in one instance.

Can someone know more about these wars. What was the cause and reason? How end it? What were crucial battles? Who lead them?

Thanks in advance.

Vezir · May 28th, 2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadir

From wiki:

This was the time when the long series of wars called the Khazar-Arab wars began. These wars largely ended with Arab defeats, with a fairly well-known commander, Abd ar-Rahman ibn Rabiah, perishing in one instance.

Can someone know more about these wars. What was the cause and reason? How end it? What were crucial battles? Who lead them?

Thanks in advance.

Arabs wanted control Caucasus and to do that they had to destroy Khazar Khanate(Country who dominates Caucasus). That is the main reason why wars started. Khazar-Arabic wars are the first Turkish-Arabic wars in history. Also if Arabs managed to defeat Khazar Khanate, they could easily go north to Ukraine with out facing a big resistance. Khazar victory blocked the Islamic expansion to north.

Nadir · May 28th, 2012, 02:07 PM

Thanks Vezir. Do you know more about battles and specific persons?

GalataTurk · May 28th, 2012, 04:31 PM

Arabs wanted to spread Islam via jihad.They attacked each non-muslims on their route.Jewish Turks stopped them around Caucasus.
Its claimed that Khazar Turks form 80% of world Jewish population.However,I am not sure about that.I just read on internet.

WeisSaul · May 28th, 2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalataTurk

Arabs wanted to spread Islam via jihad.They attacked each non-muslims on their route.Jewish Turks stopped them around Caucasus.
Its claimed that Khazar Turks form 80% of world Jewish population.However,I am not sure about that.I just read on internet.

Ashkenazi Jews came from the west not the east. The Khazar nobility adopted Judaism, seeing it as a neutral religion between the warring worlds of Christendom and Islam. The religion never actually descended to the population, who was mostly orthodox christians with small muslim and catholic minorities. Jews migrated to Khazaria because they heard it was a nice place to live. When Khazaria fell to the Ruthenians, Jews didn't do too well but stuck around because they had nowhere else to go really. When the Poles took over with their religious tolerance , which they proclaimed because they were also caught between the worlds of Catholic Christendom, Orthodox Christendom, and Islam, more Jews came because it was tolerant. Jews at the time always went to where they were hated the least. Ironically, their increasing numbers because of it lead to people becoming more hostile to them.

People who claim Ashkenazi Jews are just Turks are anti-zionists who are just trying to delegitimize the Jewish nation-state by saying there is no nation that deserves a state.
------
The Khazar Arab wars were fought between the Ummayad and later Abbasid Caliphates and the Khazar Khaganate. The Khazars were a mutlireligious and cosmopolitan nation, while the Ummayad was Arab dominant but the Abbasid Caliphate was much more persianized, with the Caliph being more a Persian style King of Kings than an absolute dictator. The Caliphates wanted to push to the Caucasus, a very defensible border, so that they could later invade the north and try to spread Islam into the Ukraine. They were comparable to the Sino-Arab wars, where two great powers, both extremely powerful, came together and decided through combat where the line would be drawn. The Caliphate's victory over the Tang dynasty kicked China out of central Asia for a thousand years, whereas the Khazar victories over the caliphates kept the Caliphate and Islam altogether from every getting much farther north into East than just north of the caucasus. The only other places in Europe where Islam is really powerful are European Turkey, Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia, all of which are very small places. Though, with the large resettlement of Crimean Tatars from central Asia, Crimea could be next.

If you want more information, here is Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar%E2%80%93Arab_Wars

RollingWave · May 28th, 2012, 06:38 PM

Khazaria was the only known example of a major state converting to Judahism. their core region was that between the Don and Volga river and down to the Caucas Mts. which means they completely controlled the northern Silk road. by the late Sassinid period due to instability in Persia a lot of the Silk road traffic diverted north through Khazaria to the black sea, this combined with the Northern trade.. where highly thought after furs came down from all over the north down south to the ERE and Persia.. which the Khazars also controlled, made the Khazars wealthy beyond all imagination due to the control of this traffic, it is recorded that on parties it was common for wealthy Khazar nobles to just throw around silver persian coins like you would throw flowers. such was the ridiculas amount of wealth they controlled. After the Sassinids blewup it became a 3 way contest in the near -east between the Romans / Khazars / Arabs (the first Bulgarian empire that border both Khazaria and the Romans were obviously also a major factor).

The Khazars ended up siding with the Byznatiums more often than not against the Arabs for a variety of reason, first is that Byzantium was usully the main consumer of ther silkroad at that point, while the Arabs were their main commercial competitor so to speak, which made the choice fairly easy. and for the same reason it was also not hard to see why the Arabs want to go at the Khazars, since defeating them would result in their complete dominationg of the silk road.

Though it is uncertain, many believe that the offical convertion to Judahism played a role in Khazars downfall, within a century after their official convertion a series of revolt occured amongst the core tribes of the confederation, the result was that 3 of the main Khazar tribes broke away, and together with western branches of the Khazar's nomadic vassals, the Magyars, they continue to move on towards Hungary which would set in motion a whole nother series of events.

The departure of the Magyars and Kabars from the confederation seem to have permenantly broken the balance within Khazaria, at this point their relationship with the Byzantiums also begun to change,

As the threat of the Arab became less pronounced at this point especially in the Caucas area, the common interest between the is now questionable and the new Macedonian dynasty's policy toward the Khazars began to change, because the primary focus of the Byzantiums now was to deal agains the Bulgarian, the new alliances they made.. with the Magyars and the Rus, were decidedly agains Khazaria's interest.

The other problem with the departure of the Magyar is that the their main counterpart , the main eastern nomadic vassals of Khazaria, the Pechengs, became controllably powerful. which made the Khazars rely ever more heavily on their remaining western vassals, the newly rising Rus people.

Of course, it would eventually be the Rus that delievered the final death blow to the Khazars, in 965 AD Sviatoslav I attacked and destroyed the most important Khazar Fortress of Sarkel and it's capital Atil, though the Rus was not able to hold on to those areas, instead the Pechengs flooded through and occupied most of the Khazar core lands. thus putting an end to the Khazars, though it appear that fragments of the Khazars survived for a century or so longer.

Nadir · May 28th, 2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeisSaul

Ashkenazi Jews came from the west not the east. The Khazar nobility adopted Judaism, seeing it as a neutral religion between the warring worlds of Christendom and Islam. The religion never actually descended to the population, who was mostly orthodox christians with small muslim and catholic minorities. Jews migrated to Khazaria because they heard it was a nice place to live. When Khazaria fell to the Ruthenians, Jews didn't do too well but stuck around because they had nowhere else to go really. When the Poles took over with their religious tolerance , which they proclaimed because they were also caught between the worlds of Catholic Christendom, Orthodox Christendom, and Islam, more Jews came because it was tolerant. Jews at the time always went to where they were hated the least. Ironically, their increasing numbers because of it lead to people becoming more hostile to them.

People who claim Ashkenazi Jews are just Turks are anti-zionists who are just trying to delegitimize the Jewish nation-state by saying there is no nation that deserves a state.
------
The Khazar Arab wars were fought between the Ummayad and later Abbasid Caliphates and the Khazar Khaganate. The Khazars were a mutlireligious and cosmopolitan nation, while the Ummayad was Arab dominant but the Abbasid Caliphate was much more persianized, with the Caliph being more a Persian style King of Kings than an absolute dictator. The Caliphates wanted to push to the Caucasus, a very defensible border, so that they could later invade the north and try to spread Islam into the Ukraine. They were comparable to the Sino-Arab wars, where two great powers, both extremely powerful, came together and decided through combat where the line would be drawn. The Caliphate's victory over the Tang dynasty kicked China out of central Asia for a thousand years, whereas the Khazar victories over the caliphates kept the Caliphate and Islam altogether from every getting much farther north into East than just north of the caucasus. The only other places in Europe where Islam is really powerful are European Turkey, Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia, all of which are very small places. Though, with the large resettlement of Crimean Tatars from central Asia, Crimea could be next.

If you want more information, here is Wikipedia:
Khazar

Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia dont have nothing with Arabs. Rather Ottomans. I wouldnt say that Caliphate won Tang dynasty. It was just border skrimish for Chinese. They were outnumbered. Anyway in wiki link , as on other sites I checked, there is no mentionig of one single battle between Khazars and Arabs. And I want to know details.

Nadir · May 28th, 2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollingWave

Khazaria was the only known example of a major state converting to Judahism. their core region was that between the Don and Volga river and down to the Caucas Mts. which means they completely controlled the northern Silk road. by the late Sassinid period due to instability in Persia a lot of the Silk road traffic diverted north through Khazaria to the black sea, this combined with the Northern trade.. where highly thought after furs came down from all over the north down south to the ERE and Persia.. which the Khazars also controlled, made the Khazars wealthy beyond all imagination due to the control of this traffic, it is recorded that on parties it was common for wealthy Khazar nobles to just throw around silver persian coins like you would throw flowers. such was the ridiculas amount of wealth they controlled. After the Sassinids blewup it became a 3 way contest in the near -east between the Romans / Khazars / Arabs (the first Bulgarian empire that border both Khazaria and the Romans were obviously also a major factor).

The Khazars ended up siding with the Byznatiums more often than not against the Arabs for a variety of reason, first is that Byzantium was usully the main consumer of ther silkroad at that point, while the Arabs were their main commercial competitor so to speak, which made the choice fairly easy. and for the same reason it was also not hard to see why the Arabs want to go at the Khazars, since defeating them would result in their complete dominationg of the silk road.

Though it is uncertain, many believe that the offical convertion to Judahism played a role in Khazars downfall, within a century after their official convertion a series of revolt occured amongst the core tribes of the confederation, the result was that 3 of the main Khazar tribes broke away, and together with western branches of the Khazar's nomadic vassals, the Magyars, they continue to move on towards Hungary which would set in motion a whole nother series of events.

The departure of the Magyars and Kabars from the confederation seem to have permenantly broken the balance within Khazaria, at this point their relationship with the Byzantiums also begun to change,

As the threat of the Arab became less pronounced at this point especially in the Caucas area, the common interest between the is now questionable and the new Macedonian dynasty's policy toward the Khazars began to change, because the primary focus of the Byzantiums now was to deal agains the Bulgarian, the new alliances they made.. with the Magyars and the Rus, were decidedly agains Khazaria's interest.

The other problem with the departure of the Magyar is that the their main counterpart , the main eastern nomadic vassals of Khazaria, the Pechengs, became controllably powerful. which made the Khazars rely ever more heavily on their remaining western vassals, the newly rising Rus people.

Of course, it would eventually be the Rus that delievered the final death blow to the Khazars, in 965 AD Sviatoslav I attacked and destroyed the most important Khazar Fortress of Sarkel and it's capital Atil, though the Rus was not able to hold on to those areas, instead the Pechengs flooded through and occupied most of the Khazar core lands. thus putting an end to the Khazars, though it appear that fragments of the Khazars survived for a century or so longer.

Thanks a lot. Do you know about battles?

I wonder how do we know about Khazars Arabs wars in the first place?
What historians wrote about it? What is todays historians source?

As I read once , somewhere, that Khazars leader was woman. Very brutal.
Maybe I mixed things. Not sure.

Lazyman · May 28th, 2012, 11:10 PM

I could not find any description of the battle, not even with Al Tabari, it seems that the Arab army just vanished .

Tank Ace · May 29th, 2012, 12:06 AM

Before Arab-Khazar wars there were series of battles for Caucasus...Byzantines,Persians and Khazars tried to dominate the Region.
After fall of Iran,Arabs continued the war instead of Persians.

The most well know Campaign(in Georgia) is Marwan II`s invasion.(730s)
His main Goal was to stop Khazars advance in south Caucasus and to suppress Georgian Rebellion.

Marwan II`s Campaign in western Georgia failed but as a whole Arabs Succeeded to achieve main goals Marwan stopped khazars and in Eastern Georgia he established Emirate Of Tbilisi. (Lasted until David IV of Georgia took the capital in 1122).

P.S.
Marwan II in Georgia is knows as Marwan The Deaf.