DreamWeaver

Right so I was reading some stuff on Byzantine History in the 8th and 9th Centuries concerning Iconoclasm, its role and purpose and meaning etc in Byzantine society. I was just wondering (since Byzantine History and especially this period is a bit beyond my usual remit) was there any fall out or knock on from Iconoclasm on the west? Or was it a sole Byzantine thing with no real fall out for for the west? Since it seems to have been quite a prominent issue in its day, fair few Byzantinists on here, what's the score?

MinoanGoddess

Iconoclasm literally means "image breaking" and refers to a recurring historical impulse to break or destroy images for religious or political reasons. For example, in ancient Egypt, the carved visages of some pharaohs were obliterated by their successors; during the French Revolution, images of kings were defaced.

Iconoclasm: The Source of Debate
The Iconoclastic debate centered on the appropriate use of icons in religious veneration, and the precise relationship between the sacred personage and his/her image. Fear that the viewer misdirected his/her veneration toward the image rather than to the holy person represented in the image lay at the heart of this controversy. Old Testament prohibitions against worshipping graven images (Exodus 20:4) provided one of the most important precedents for Byzantine Iconoclasm. The immediate causes for this crisis have been hotly contested by scholars. Among the many suggested causes are the rise of Islam and the emperor's desire to usurp religious authority and funds.

Icons after Iconoclasm
The Iconoclastic controversy had a profound effect on the production of Byzantine images after their reintroduction in 843. Changes shaped by the Iconoclastic debate included the evolution of distinct portrait types for individual saints; the development of more standardized programs of church wall decoration in mosaic and fresco; and the growing popularity of certain subjects such as Christ's Anastasis or the "Harrowing of Hell", and the Koimesis or the "Falling Asleep" of the Virgin.

In the Byzantine world, Iconoclasm refers to a theological debate involving both the Byzantine church and state. The controversy spanned roughly a century, during the years 726–87 and 815–43. In these decades, imperial legislation barred the production and use of figural images; simultaneously, the cross was promoted as the most acceptable decorative form for Byzantine churches. Archaeological evidence suggests that in certain regions of Byzantium, including Constantinople and Nicaea, existing icons were destroyed or plastered over. Very few early Byzantine icons survived the Iconoclastic period; notable exceptions are woven icons, painted icons preserved at the Monastery of Saint Catherine on Mount Sinai, Egypt, and the miniature icons found on Byzantine coins, including those of Justinian II.

Icons and Iconoclasm in Byzantium | Thematic Essay | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Dromon

The Iconomachy ("Icons War") was about something deeper than "icons or no icons in the churches". It was a war between the Greek and the "Middle Eastern" mentality (the latter represented today mainly by the Hebrew and Islamic religious systems). At that time the West was in its deep dark Age, and wouldn't be enlighted by itshelf should a radical middle-eastern christianism had prevailed in the East. The iconomachs would probably eradicate everything that was left of the Greek knowledge and way of thinking and these could not enter the West through the early Arabs and the Byzantines of the 15th-16th c.

MinoanGoddess

Pease site your sources

Dromon

Just the first (although telegrahic) that I found by googling:
page 78 http://static.sdu.dk/mediafiles/File...%20Katelis.pdf

DreamWeaver

sounds as though you have never heard of Toledo.

Kirialax

These ideas were current fifty years ago, but have now been totally rejected. For the important literature, see L. Brubaker and J. Haldon, Byzantium in the Iconoclast Era, and A. Cameron, 'Images of Authority: Elites and Icons in Late Sixth Century Byzantium', Past and Present.

Dromon

Or should I wait 50 more years, when deconstructionism and Class conflict will possibly be outdated?

pugsville

Surely there is some sort of Parallel with Puritanism/Protestantism v Catholics with much plainer services, churches and less emphasis om saints? Not saying direct influence (different times) but some similar ideas?

DreamWeaver

Was there an immediate knock on effect for the contemporary western Europeans at the same time?

One might perhaps find parallels with later iconoclastic purges in the reformation, the stripping of the altars, but those would just be parallels, highly unlikely to have any grave connection.