Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Medieval and Byzantine History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 16th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #271

Labienus's Avatar
Il Conte di Virtł
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Canada
Posts: 6,392

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
For one, definitely not the Reconquista, an exponentially lengthier historical process than all the formal Crusades of Holy Land together, for which BTW the blessing of His Holiness was fundamentally unrequired.
Indeed. However, the Holy See endorsed and actively encouraged the Reconquista and it therefore might fit in the pluralist view that DreamWeaver explained.
Labienus is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 16th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #272
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labienus View Post
Indeed. However, the Holy See endorsed and actively encouraged the Reconquista and it therefore might fit in the pluralist view that DreamWeaver explained.
But the Holy See endorsed and actively encouraged only some limited episodes of such eight-centuries-long struggle.

WW2 couldn't be called "Germany defeated by Brazil" just because there were some Brazilian units fighting some months in Italy.
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #273

Labienus's Avatar
Il Conte di Virtł
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Canada
Posts: 6,392

Agreed.
Labienus is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 07:27 AM   #274

irishcrusader95's Avatar
None shall pass!
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Ireland
Posts: 6,730
Blog Entries: 4

what about the Baltic crusades, were they a success or failure?

i guess understanding what the actual objectives of it were would help but if its a question of the success of the Teutonic knights then no they failed after their defeat at Tannenberg. yet were they successful in christianizing the region and rooting out paganism. the Teutonic knights were ultimately working counter to that aim as it would remove their reason for being there and lithuania converted latter on it own terms anyway.
irishcrusader95 is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 08:00 AM   #275
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishcrusader95 View Post
what about the Baltic crusades, were they a success or failure?

i guess understanding what the actual objectives of it were would help but if its a question of the success of the Teutonic knights then no they failed after their defeat at Tannenberg. yet were they successful in christianizing the region and rooting out paganism. the Teutonic knights were ultimately working counter to that aim as it would remove their reason for being there and lithuania converted latter on it own terms anyway.
IMHO the christianization of the region depended fundamentally from the Polish influence and not the pious Teutonic massive slaughtering of the natives.

Aside from such detail, we tend to agree on this issue.
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #276

Yōḥānān's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Portugal
Posts: 2,330

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
But the Holy See endorsed and actively encouraged only some limited episodes of such eight-centuries-long struggle.
The Holy See says it was a Crusade:
Quote:
Since the Middle Ages the meaning of the word crusade has been extended to include all wars undertaken in pursuance of a vow, and directed against infidels, i.e. against Mohammedans, pagans, heretics, or those under the ban of excommunication. The wars waged by the Spaniards against the Moors constituted a continual crusade from the eleventh to the sixteenth century;
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Crusades



In a nutshell: Crusades, success in the west faillure in the east.

Last edited by Yōḥānān; November 17th, 2012 at 01:04 PM.
Yōḥānān is online now  
Old November 17th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #277
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yōḥānān View Post
The Holy See says it was a Crusade:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Crusades



In a nutschell: Crusades, good in the west bad in the east.
And Saddam said that the Mother of All Battles was a Jihad...

So???
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #278

Yōḥānān's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Portugal
Posts: 2,330

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
And Saddam said that the Mother of All Battles was a Jihad...

So???
I assume you say that because Saddam had no authority to issue a Jihad only a religious authority can do that. However the Reconquista in the designated period was sometimes an act of Crusade and for the rest of the time within the spirit. And unlike Saddam the Catholic Church had legitimacy to issue a Crusade.
Yōḥānān is online now  
Old November 17th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #279

Gnaeus's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Toronto
Posts: 197

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yōḥānān View Post
I assume you say that because Saddam had no authority to issue a Jihad only a religious authority can do that. However the Reconquista in the designated period was sometimes an act of Crusade and for the rest of the time within the spirit. And unlike Saddam the Catholic Church had legitimacy to issue a Crusade.
Which was?
Gnaeus is offline  
Old November 17th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #280

Yōḥānān's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Portugal
Posts: 2,330

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnaeus View Post
Which was?
Which was what?
Yōḥānān is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Medieval and Byzantine History

Tags
crusades, victor


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crusades SPERRO Medieval and Byzantine History 66 September 29th, 2011 01:34 AM
Different Victor at the second Battle of Philipi Isoroku295 Speculative History 2 March 8th, 2010 04:44 PM
GIAP: The Victor in Vietnam bigscreeninkster History Book Reviews 1 December 29th, 2009 02:15 AM
Victor Davis Hanson Pantagruel History Book Reviews 12 July 22nd, 2009 06:24 AM
Victor Hugo Commander History Book Reviews 8 June 11th, 2008 07:11 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.