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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #401
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
Guess you are already well aware by now that repeating the same mantra ad infinitum, even ad nauseam, is not going to change the hard historical facts an inch, huh?

Answers?
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
Strawman as you well know.

Answer the questions.
Hint; trying to copycat my language will only work when there may be any relevant hard evidence behind.

I have at this point defined & discussed what objective waste is, and what it means, in spite of your futile attempts of evasion post after post.

If you can't understand such an elementary answer, that's not my problem.

Your answers are there: if you can't deal with them that's not my problem either.

Pretending to so absurdly avoid acknowledging the undeniable by wasting our time is just pathetic and well below your standards.

The undeniable waste of tens of thousands of lives and of filthy colossal amounts of money for generatios just for the deeply religiously fanatic penance of the sins by the Crusaders' Holy War just couldn't be any more evident by now.

Again, this is not eactly rocket science.

What exactly would it be so difficult for you to understand or to accept?

The colossal waste?

The impressive fanaticism?

All the lives wasted?

All the money wasted?

(And we have yet to talk about the victims)

Maybe the incredibly complex religious concept of the Penance of the Sins by Holy Warfare?

Or perhaps that the fanatics involved were all from western & central Europe?


And not a single piece of contrary evidence, huh?
(Admittedly that may be asking too much here)

Please try once again your pathetic excuse that you may not find "relevant" such overwhelming evidence...

Because your clearly unbiased opinion would be so absolutely required by the facts for being real
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #402

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
I have at this point defined & discussed what objective waste is, and what it means, in spite of your futile attempts of evasion post after post.

If you can't understand such an elementary answer, that's not my problem.

Your answers are there: if you can't deal with them that's not my problem either.

Pretending to so absurdly avoid acknowledging the undeniable by wasting our time is just pathetic and well below your standards.

The undeniable waste of tens of thousands of lives and of filthy colossal amounts of money for generatios just for the deeply religiously fanatic penance of the sins by the Crusaders' Holy War just couldn't be any more evident by now.

Again, this is not eactly rocket science.

What exactly would it be so difficult for you to understand or to accept?

The waste?

The fanaticism?

All the lives wasted?

All the money wasted?

(And we have yet to talk about the victims)

Maybe the incredibly complex religious concept of the Penance of the Sins by Holy Warfare?

And not a single piece of contrary evidence, huh?

(Admittedly that may be asking too much here)

Please try once again your pathetic excuse that you may not find "relevant" such overwhelming evidence...

Because your clearly unbiased opinion would be so absolutely required by the facts for being real
Its not my fault nor my problem that elementary historical practice is beyond you and you cant deal with it.


Waste of your time perhaps Im not so bothered, Im doing ok. Guess waste is less objective there.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #403
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Its not my fault nor my problem that elementary historical practice is beyond you and you cant deal with it.


Waste of your time perhaps Im not so bothered. Guess waste is less objective there.
So that's all what was left of your academic display here?

Not worried anymore on what may be "apparent to all"?

Just a desperate echo?

Your choice.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #404

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So that's all what was left of your academic display here?

Just a desperate echo?

Your choice.
This isnt an academic display, this is Historum.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:21 PM   #405
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This isnt an academic display, this is Historum.
Wow, wow, wow, take it easy, man; please explain it again slowly, huh?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #406

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Wow, wow, wow, take it easy, man; please explain it again slowly, huh?
No need.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #407
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No need.
Please just try switching to decaf and have a nice day, OK?

Just remember; it's not your fault if the fanatic Crusades so futilely wasted so much lives & resources just for the Penance of the Sins by Holy War.

Trust me on this one.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #408
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Now, Brownie; any personal question on the OP entirely on your own?
I asked myself the same questions DreamWeaver asked you. You still didn't answer the questions around all this debate is articulated; What is this objective waste? and How was this decided how is it determined.

If I schematize your thoughts about waste, it would give something like this.

About human lives- Crusades are military expeditions who mobilized a bunch of commoners and knights, some of them died. You have said the figure ''tens of thousands'' but you didn't say where you got that information. Some have died en route or fighting, therefore it's a waste.
About money- Military orders mobilized funds to fight in the Holy Land. Money goes to fight the infidels, therefore money is wasted, therefore it is a waste.


Ok, this being said, let me ask you questions ''of my own''.
What's the difference between Seljuk invasions, Norman invasions, and Mongol invasions in terms of human lives? ************s of all creed DID die fighting or en route.


What's the difference between colonization of the Americas and the Crusades in terms of money spending? Kings, princes and other church folks all paid to send men armed with swords or bibles to these far-away lands.


If you do not answer any of these questions, I'll take for granted that you made your own concept of ''waste'' without analyzing any other parameters than ''what you perceived the crusades to be'', therefore you do not know what you are talking about, therefore this debate is all an absurd and colossal waste of our collective time, just to find out that little sylla1 behind his computer screen in Mexico thinks the Crusades are a waste because he has some kind of problem differentiating what the Crusades meant to the contemporaries, and what the Crusades means for people today.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #409

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Please just try switching to decaf and have a nice day, OK?

Just remember; it's not your fault if the fanatic Crusades so futilely wasted so much lives & resources just for the Penance of the Sins by Holy War.

Trust me on this one.

I dont drink coffee

I have had a very lovely day, yesterday was my 6 year anniversary with my other half.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #410
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I asked myself the same questions DreamWeaver asked you. You still didn't answer the questions around all this debate is articulated; What is this objective waste? and How was this decided how is it determined.

If I schematize your thoughts about waste, it would give something like this.

About human lives- Crusades are military expeditions who mobilized a bunch of commoners and knights, some of them died. You have said the figure ''tens of thousands'' but you didn't say where you got that information. Some have died en route or fighting, therefore it's a waste.
About money- Military orders mobilized funds to fight in the Holy Land. Money goes to fight the infidels, therefore money is wasted, therefore it is a waste.


Ok, this being said, let me ask you questions ''of my own''.
What's the difference between Seljuk invasions, Norman invasions, and Mongol invasions in terms of human lives? ************s of all creed DID die fighting or en route.


What's the difference between colonization of the Americas and the Crusades in terms of money spending? Kings, princes and other church folks all paid to send men armed with swords or bibles to these far-away lands.


If you do not answer any of these questions, I'll take for granted that you made your own concept of ''waste'' without analyzing any other parameters than ''what you perceived the crusades to be'', therefore you do not know what you are talking about, therefore this debate is all an absurd and colossal waste of our collective time, just to find out that little sylla1 behind his computer screen in Mexico thinks the Crusades are a waste because he has some kind of problem differentiating what the Crusades meant to the contemporaries, and what the Crusades means for people today.
You can't be serious.

The elementary answer couldn't have been any more crystal clearly explicit all along this nice thread.

It couldn't be my fault if anyone might be simply unable to grasp such obviousness.

Once again, in plain elementary English...

Because all those other wars and the vast majority of conflicts all along History have ultimately been either for survival or simply for healthy rational human greed.

While as it has already been explained here ad inifinitum, the Crusades were fundamentally and objectively just for the religious fanatic Penance of the Sins.

As you may know, under regular secular academic grounds, such rationale for wasting men & money would have been considered plainly stupid.
Period.

But as in this case deep religious ideology was involved, we can alternatively call it fanaticism.

And I'm truly sorry (you can't imagine how much) if any people here may for any bizarre reason take such obviousness personal.

But facts are facts.
Period.

Quote:
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.

Last edited by sylla1; December 4th, 2012 at 04:54 PM.
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