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Old March 10th, 2014, 07:45 AM   #41

St Oswald's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by Milgod View Post
Interesting. You offer nothing to back up your claim that he was more French than English apart from the fact he spoke the language of the ruling class.

I offer some examples that it wasn't the case and you decide to act silly by saying 'You must have known him personally then.'

Happy to discuss this, but please come with some actual ideas to debate. Are you saying that Edward didn't care for Edward the Confessor and it was only Henry? Very interesting.
I repeat a statement on another post

History is not an exacting subject , it is based on the opinions of the writer of the particular historic incident . Our knowledge of individuals is open to interpretation , some based on archaeology (again with interpretation ) and some from our interpretation of what was left behind in written form

In every occasion it pays to be sceptical and to question the motive of the writer . What is in their interest to tell it in this way

What is their reason for writing it in this way .

Imagine in a modern context . Someone could write that IDS the British politician decided that there were too many people living in the UK so he had a deliberate policy to starve some of them to death to reduce the population .

Someone else might write IDS introduce revolutionary welfare reforms

In 500 years time you get two different views of IDS

I was not trying to ridicule you by saying ''Do you know him personally ''

I was merely stating the evidence does not support your opinion . Because it is opinion not fact .

Most of the evidence would point to the fact that Edward was a lanque d'oil speaking nobleman , who would have considered himself overlord of what is modern day France , England , Wales , Ireland and Scotland . He would not have any regard for the ordinary folk .

He would only have regard for his closest noble allies , who would probably considered themselves as more French than English in our modern concept of status .

In saying this clearly this is also an opinion , as we will never fully know

''Unless we knew the guy personally ,,

It is always best to be sceptical

His Father had a written and recorded veneration of Edward the Confessor based on the deep and superstitious religious devotion of the period .

This is why against Norman French tradition he gave his son a Saxon name .

Henry IIIís Fine Rolls Blog Friday 12 October to Saturday 20 October 1257

Monday, October 22nd,
Henry arrived at Westminster on Friday 12 October, having travelled up from Windsor. On the twelfth, according to his custom, he fasted. On the thirteenth he celebrated, for it was the greatest day in his religious year, the feast of the translation of his patron saint Edward the Confessor. How wonderful to celebrate it, with masses, candles, offerings at the Confessorís shrine, and feasts for magnates and thousands of paupers, now the great new church he was building in the Confessorís honour was nearing completion in its eastern arm and transepts. The new church dominated the Westminster scene, proclaiming to all the power of the Confessor and the protection he afforded to his greatest disciple. Something of the celebrations of this day can be glimpsed in the orders Henry issued to prepare for the feast. These included the procurement of 6000 fresh herrings, 2000 place, 5000 merlin, up to 20,000 lampreys.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 08:33 AM   #42

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Joined: Jun 2015
From: UK
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William I i doubt spoke any English, neither did William Rufus. Henry I had an English wife, so may have known many words, and named his son Adelin (a Francification of the Old English "atheling" meaning royal prince).

Henry II spoke a few words, though John may have, whilst Richard Lionheart didn't. Henry III and Edward Longshanks may have been French speakers primarily, but due to the loss of Normandy by John, English became more rehabilitated in official circles. Edward II, and Edward III, may have been more habitual speakers, and I cannot see Edward III of all people speaking the language of his enemy. I suspect though that the latter Angevins may have been bilingual, with Henry IV being one of the first to have English as a primary language.
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