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Old September 5th, 2009, 02:58 PM   #1

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The Babylonian Captivity


Oh my God! Can anyone explain in the simplest terms what the "Babylonian Captivity is?
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Old September 5th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #2

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


It was a novel by Robert Ludlam. Jason Babylonian, a young man apparently in his late 20s or early 30s, wakes up with no memory of who he was or where he's been. As he struggles to uncover his past, he discovers that he has a number of unusual skills, many related to combat and/or espionage. It becomes clear that he was some sort of agent. It also becomes clear that others are hunting him in an attempt to...

...oops... sorry about that... Babylonian Captivity... Bourne Supremacy... it was a mistake anyone could have made
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Old September 5th, 2009, 04:35 PM   #3
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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


The Israelites driven out of their homeland and enslaved by Nebuchadnezzar?
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Old September 5th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #4

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


Quote:
Originally Posted by larkin View Post
Oh my God! Can anyone explain in the simplest terms what the "Babylonian Captivity is?
It'd help me to know the source or reason of your curiosity ... In the simplest terms, Nick has said it all, already.

(I might add that Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Babylon.)

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Old September 5th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #5

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


no, it had to do with the split in the papacy in Rome. they had a pope in Byzantium, an pope in Rome and another pope in Avignon... go figure?
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Old September 5th, 2009, 07:02 PM   #6

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


Right.

You're talking about Martin Luther and the Reformation movement, then, I believe.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther[/ame]
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Martin_Luther

He wrote a book, in which he possibly explains that the instituted Church of his time wasn't living like it should, and theorizes from the biblical Israelite Babylon captivity that the church had been taken into some sort of captivity as well -- I believe. Never read the book, so, it'll be good for you to get a second opinion. Try taking a look in the articles on M Luther.

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Old September 5th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #7

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


Er ... nope.

Actually, it's the Avignon Papacy, 1305-1378 ... [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy[/ame]

(Which might be what M Luther wrote about.)

[Er .. no again: M Luther didn't write about the Avignon Papacy period, appearently ...

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Babylonian_Captivity_of_the_Church"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Babylonian_Captivity_of_the_Church[/ame]]

+|So, there were two schisms. One first that split the Catholic Church in two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism). Now, take care here: the church in the East (Constantinople/Bizantium) didn't have a Pope, but a Patriarch. It may not seem important, but it does make a difference.

As far as I know (however I need more study on the matter), this first schism, in the XIth century, split the Catholic Church into Orthodox Catholic Church (centered in Constantinople) and Roman Catholic Church (centered in Rome -- now we know: until the Avignon schism, in the XIVth century).

The Avignon schism didn't seem to have divided the Roman Catholic Church (or at least I'm not aware of it ... something may have happened).

Now, one other important period for the Roman Catholic nations in Europe was the Council of Trent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent,_Council_of), which made rise the Jesuit order instead of the Benedictins and Dominicans, who domained until then. This is important because it affected the colonization of the Spanish and Portuguese Americas.

Concerning the reasons why the period of the Avignon Papacy may have been passed to History as "the Babylonian Captivity", of course it's some sort of comparison with the Israelite captivity by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, which is partially told in the bible (end of the books of the Kings and Chronicles, and Jeremiah, don't bother check it up, I'm only referring it). I just don't know whether the Popes in Avignon considered themselves victims of a captivity or the Italian cities considered this moving the Holy Church government to France (Avignon), instead of Rome (Italy) where it was usually placed.

If you read the article on the Avignon Papacy, you might find out what you need. I just found out that I have a lot of Catholic Church history to catch up with, so, I'll better start. (I need to learn something about the Council of Trent, but I'll go back into the first Schism (East-West), because the reading atracted my attention, and I'll make some notes on the councils, because I never studied that, and it affects later history of Europe, in what concerns the Roman Catholic countries, such as Spain, and Portugal -- which (this last one) colonized Brasil ... Where I was born --, so, I have to come to know about it.

Anyway, ATTENTION: the East-West Schism and the Avignon Papacy occured in different periods, so, you have to pay attention to both events in its own period, considering that the first one (East-West) is more famous than the second one (Rome-Avignon).

Last edited by gus; September 5th, 2009 at 08:19 PM. Reason: [additions]+|&c.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 01:14 AM   #8

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


No it is the enslavement of the jews by Nebuchadnezzar the ruler of Babylon, who relocated them away from there home land(Canaan).
As Nick pointed out.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 02:21 AM   #9

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


I thought it was the enslavement of society as a whole to the Unholy Trinity of Money, Power, and Fame.

Nebuchadnezzar, huh? Thanks for straightening me out on that one.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 07:18 PM   #10

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Re: The Babylonian Captivity


Quote:
Originally Posted by sturm View Post
No it is the enslavement of the jews by Nebuchadnezzar the ruler of Babylon, who relocated them away from there home land(Canaan).
As Nick pointed out.

There are several different events labeled as the Babylonian Captivity. You and Nick have mentioned the first labeled.

I believe it is the second label that the poster is referring to. That is when the papacy was moved from Rome to Avignon, France. It is at this time that the papacy was under the influence of the French. The Papal Schism, which occurred in 1377, saw the rise of a second Pope. Many of those who were allied with the French recognized the papacy in Avignon, while those against France supported the new Pope in Rome.

Someone made a comment on about whether this brought a split in the Church...at first, the answer was no. The captivity really only affected the politics of Europe. However, as time went on, people began to realize how corrupt the Church had become. Anti-clericalism,the schism of 1377, and other "calamities of the 14th Century" began to eat away at the Church's power. While it never brought a split in the Church, it did have a hand (amongst other things) in damaging its reputation and authority during the Renaissance and Reformation.

The final labeled Babylonian Captivity was mentioned by pauros. Martin Luther's work "The Babylonian Captivity of the Church" discusses the sacraments as well as attacking the papacy for its abuses.
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