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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old September 11th, 2006, 12:02 PM   #11

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Originally Posted by CelticBard
They have become a household word through the Da Vinci Code and National Treasure. Everyone thinks they have so many secrets they are hiding. Why cant the Teutonic Knights or the Hospitallers get any press?
The Teutonic Knights were baddest looking knights of 'em all! Evil-looking flayed black cross on a white field...helmets with gigantic decorations. Those dudes had a LOOK to them that said: "We are the line between Chivalry and Brutality. Cross it at your peril."

It's also said that Germany's national soccer team takes its colors from the traditional black and white of the Teutonic Knights. However, considering black and white is a pretty universal color combination, that claim might be suspect.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #12
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They were also the first real Banker's.
in orient too ?
How do we know that ?
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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #13

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They have become a household word through the Da Vinci Code and National Treasure. Everyone thinks they have so many secrets they are hiding. Why cant the Teutonic Knights or the Hospitallers get any press?

Knights of St John, read about siege of Rhodes and Malta both epics
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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #14

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An aged thread. Sure that in the forum there many others regarding the Order of the Temple, I comment the opening post of this one.

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Since I read Umberto Eco's "Focault Pendulum's", I've been attracted by the stories of the Knight Templars.

Even if they started as a very poor military order in 1118, with just nine members in the temple of Jerusalem (hence the title "Poor Knights of the Temple") dedicated to work as escorts for the pilgrims, they soon became one of the most powerful organizations in the Middle Ages.
The complete name was "Poor Knights of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon". The purpose of those first knights is not that clear. To imagine that 9 riding warriors were able to defend the flux of pilgrims from the coast to Jerusalem, well, it's quite curious.

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The Pope took the Templars under his protection and exempted them from all jurisdictions, and they were also favored by many kings in Europe.
The process lasted some decades and the theological debate about "fighting monks" wasn't easy. It needed the intervention of Bernardo [from Chiaravalle], the greatest theologian of that period to give to these knights a status compatible with the doctrine of the Church.

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The Templars adquired many possessions in the battles in Palestine and many say they were great warriors, combining the discipline of monks and soldiers.
The Rule of the Order was clear. During a battle no knight was allowed to leave the battle field: they had to fight until death. Generally it was the discipline of the monk to put a bit of order in the life of the warrior.

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Many accusations has been made about the Templars rites and the truth of their faith, I think this just adds to their mistery.
The accusation against the Templars were almost all common in case of groups to erase. One was particular: the accusation that they adored a head, an idol. But note that in the period wasn't rare to see relics preserved in containers with the shape of a head.

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The Templars had a tragic end, many feared the great power they had adquired and I guess they just knew too many secrets. Many secret orders are said to inherit ideas from the Templars but as far as I know this haven't been confirmed.

I'd like to know what you think about the Knight Templars, what you think is true history and what is just myth?
Just some words: it's very easy for a secret order of today to claim to carry a templar legacy. If the order is secret, how could we check?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:39 AM   #15

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in orient too ?
How do we know that ?
From what I recall, because they were effectively acting as "bankers" during the Second Crusade, and this seems to pre-date any actual activities in the Latin East of any Italian companies or organisations.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:09 AM   #16

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in orient too ?
How do we know that ?
This book is a fantastic short introduction to the Knights Templar, including their banking system.

Knights Templar, The: Amazon.co.uk: Sean Martin: Books
Knights Templar, The: Amazon.co.uk: Sean Martin: Books

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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM   #17

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What makes people think that they ever went away?Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:46 AM   #18

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In my country the Knights Templar were not persecuted or destroyed but reconverted in the Order of Christ by King Denis. According to Wikipedia Templars refugees from France could also join the order. There was a particular esteem for these military orders because of their role in the Reconquista. Henry the Navigator was grand master of the order and used its financial resources for his expeditions.Their headquarter both of the Templars and the Order of Christ can still be visited in the Convent of Christ. The Convent was enlarged over the centuries from the original Templar's temple. The original round church from the Templars where they entered with their horses to worship still remains.
It seems the Templars were only persecuted in France, in Spain, Germany and England they were not charged. In some case the Knights Hospitaller received the assets of the order.

Order of Christ (Portugal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Convent of Christ (Tomar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Yōḥānān; November 21st, 2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 11:17 AM   #19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yōḥānān View Post
In my country the Knights Templar were not persecuted or destroyed but reconverted in the Order of Christ by King Denis. According to Wikipedia Templars refugees from France could also join the order. There was a particular esteem for these military orders because of their role in the Reconquista. Henry the Navigator was grand master of the order and used its financial resources for his expeditions.Their headquarter both of the Templars and the Order of Christ can still be visited in the Convent of Christ. The Convent was enlarged over the centuries from the original Templar's temple. The original round church from the Templars where they entered with their horses to worship still remains.
It seems the Templars were only persecuted in France, in Spain, Germany and England they were not charged. In some case the Knights Hospitaller received the assets of the order.

Order of Christ (Portugal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Convent of Christ (Tomar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And we should underline the symbol that the ships commanded by Columbus carried ...

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 11:20 AM   #20

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Regarding the orders which received a certain Templar legacy, they were substantially two: the Hospital [by law, I would say, since this was the orientation of the papal power] and the Teutons. The Teuton Knights used the rule of the Temple to write their own rule and they imitate the Poor Knights, to be honest.
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