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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:23 AM   #31
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Since I read Umberto Eco's "Focault Pendulum's", I've been attracted by the stories of the Knight Templars.

Even if they started as a very poor military order in 1118, with just nine members in the temple of Jerusalem (hence the title "Poor Knights of the Temple") dedicated to work as escorts for the pilgrims, they soon became one of the most powerful organizations in the Middle Ages.

The Pope took the Templars under his protection and exempted them from all jurisdictions, and they were also favored by many kings in Europe.

The Templars adquired many possessions in the battles in Palestine and many say they were great warriors, combining the discipline of monks and soldiers.

Many accusations has been made about the Templars rites and the truth of their faith, I think this just adds to their mistery.

The Templars had a tragic end, many feared the great power they had adquired and I guess they just knew too many secrets. Many secret orders are said to inherit ideas from the Templars but as far as I know this haven't been confirmed.

I'd like to know what you think about the Knight Templars, what you think is true history and what is just myth?
I think the historical Templar had several traits that made them extremely attractive for historical fiction.

That is not reason to mix facts & fiction.

Relative to other Knight orders still extant, their relevant distinction would have been mainly their economic success and their underestimation of the power of the French monarchy.

Had they duly lent some money to good ol' Philippe le Bel, they would probably be still among us as some religious order caring lepers & elders like their Hospitaller peers.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 05:37 AM   #32

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I went to Rievaulx Abbey and there is a very old grave stone with the symbol of the Knights Templar but nothing was mentioned about the presence of Knights Templar was mentioned in the history of Rievaulx Abbey.
Potential local patronage networks, could very well be just a single occurrence from a single patron of the Abbey and has such not attracted as much attention as other, richer flashier and more important families that acted as patrons.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:03 AM   #33

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It has been hypothesized that the character Galahad from "The Quest of the Holy Grail" from the Vulgate Cycle was modeled after and represents the ideal of the Knights Templar. This character was a latter introduction in Arthurian stories in fact the appearence in the Vulgate was his first.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 09:03 AM   #34

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Potential local patronage networks, could very well be just a single occurrence from a single patron of the Abbey and has such not attracted as much attention as other, richer flashier and more important families that acted as patrons.
So is that the reason why the Knights Templar has been played down in history. I thought that the Knights Templar were men from noble families, they seem to play down a lot about those Knights in the Churches and Abbeys. I went to Durum Cathedral and for the price of a couple of quid you can see some well preserved masonry work of symbols of the Knights Templar. Admission was free to get into the Cathedral and is well worth a visit, unlike the fortune they charge you at York minster Cathedral.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #35

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About the Templar fleet escaped from La Rochelle, we have to remind what a witness, a knight, Jean De Chalons, who reported information about some galleys which sailed from that port.

I quote him
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"On the evening before the raid, Thursday October 12th 1307, I myself saw three carts loaded with straw, which left the Paris Temple shortly before nightfall, also Gerard de Villiers and Hugo de Chalons, at the head of 50 horse[men]. There were chests hidden on the carts, which contained the entire treasure of the Visitator Hugo de Pairaud. They took the road for the coast, where they were to be taken abroad in eighteen of the Order's ships."

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Old November 25th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #36

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Like Yḥānān has said, after the dissolution of the Templar Order, which had already meaningful property in Portugal, King Denis created a new order, the Order of Christ (Order Of Our Lord Jesus Christ) which was essentially the Templars under a new name, housing many foreign Templars, persecuted by France; King Denis also actually managed to transfer some wealth of the Templars into the Order Of Chris, making the Order of Christ the virtual heir of the Templars. Tomar (or Thomar, however you prefer to put it) was HQ and virtual spiritual capital of the Templars and now knights of Christ. The round church and ambulatory part of the Convent of Tomar were built in the 12th century by the Templar Knights, based on the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
For anyone interested in "lost Templar gold" theories & conspiracies, Henry the Navigator himself was appointed headmaster of the Order of Christ, and through it funded the Discovery expeditions, and military expeditions from Morocco to India.

Map of 16th century. Notice the flag with a Templar cross on Morocco.
... And also, look at the top left corner

Click the image to open in full size.


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And we should underline the symbol that the ships commanded by Columbus carried ...

Click the image to open in full size.
I'm not sure about crosses painted on Columbus' ships, I don't think they have anything to do with the Templars, granted there were many other military orders in Spain but during the discovery age, the portuguese carracks certailnly had red crosses on their sails and became a symbol like the white knights with a red cross on their vests.

Click the image to open in full size.

and uhh...
hello all

Last edited by Lusus; November 25th, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #37
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and uhh...
hello all
Bem-vindo Historum, Lusus.

Nice first post




As a general note, maybe this thread should be placed in the Speculative (Alternative) History forum.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 01:57 PM   #38

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Bem-vindo Historum, Lusus.

Nice first post




As a general note, maybe this thread should be placed in the Speculative (Alternative) History forum.
Thanks for the welcome.

And yes as far as Templars are concerned there is a lot of room for fantasy
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #39
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I'm visiting temple church in London, tomorrow. Anything I should keep my eyes open for?
Thanks!
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:53 AM   #40

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Thanks for the welcome.

And yes as far as Templars are concerned there is a lot of room for fantasy
Welcome from me too.

I was in Portugal last summer [Estoril] and I saw the castle of the Order of Malta [their diplomatic representative c/o Cabo Verde]. This made me wonder about the presence of the Orders in your country, now, in modern time.
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