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Medieval and Byzantine History Medieval and Byzantine History Forum - Period of History between classical antiquity and modern times, roughly the 5th through 16th Centuries


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Old August 24th, 2006, 12:13 PM   #1

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What happened to the Picts


The Scotti, a tribe from Ireland, invaded Caledonia around the same time the Saxons were invading Southern Britannia. The Roman writers spoke of Picts, latin for painted ones, they had a strong, but traditional army that was more accustomed to raiding than pitched battles, and a suberb navy that operated all over the Caledonian coasts. There is evidence of the Picts up until the 800's CE, what happened to such a long standing, vibrant people?
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Old August 24th, 2006, 01:10 PM   #2
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I would assume that they just assimilated with people around them. As time goes on, people assimilate. For example, look at the Native Americans. At one time, they were very different than the 'white man' that came over, but over time, everyone intermingled and soon, the Native Americans were not so different. I'm sure there were still Picts, but they were just not as obvious.
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Old August 25th, 2006, 07:25 AM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaMaster
I would assume that they just assimilated with people around them. As time goes on, people assimilate. For example, look at the Native Americans. At one time, they were very different than the 'white man' that came over, but over time, everyone intermingled and soon, the Native Americans were not so different. I'm sure there were still Picts, but they were just not as obvious.
I don't really agree with you here because it was social programs that stripped the Indians of their herritage.

Richard Henry Pratt forced the Indian children to attend boarding schools, most notably at Carlisle, where their individualism was banished by their hair being cut and by being forcing them to wear military uniforms. They learned all the classes of the day, taught by whites, and were punished severely for any misbehaving. This bred a kind of Indian who wasn't accepted back at the Reservation because he was an "Apple", red on the outside, white on the inside, but weren't accepted by white society because, afterall, they are still Indians.

Another program which destroyed some of the Indian's individuality was the depression era project to bring Indians in from the reservations, with a one way ticket I may add, drop them off in a big city, and let them find a job. This depleted the reservations of their young, working age people.

Now to the Picts, in 5th-7th century Scotland I don't believe they had boarding schools for painted children, or wanted to bring Picts from Pictland to Dal Riada to get them jobs. Historians speculate that wars must have been fought, the Picts defeated by the Irish Scots, and like the situation in Russia with a minority of Scandinavian (Rus) overlords and huge bastion Slavic underlings, the majority must have difused then absorbed the ruling minority with their culture and blood.

The final blow to the Pictish identity is said to be the Viking invasions of the 8th, 9th, and 10th centuries, they conquered many of the Northern Islands, Orkneys, Shetlands, etc. that were still established Pictish territory. Thus died the identity of one of the most obscure people in history.
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Old August 27th, 2006, 05:28 PM   #4
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Actually, your both more or less right.

The Picts were not slaughtered in a grand battle nor were they put into schools to learn the Scottish ways.

The picts had near the time of thier demise been suffering many casualties with the wars/battles which they fought with thier neighbors.

So the Picts were greatly weakend in the end.

Though it wasn't a sword which finished off the Pictish Line (Royal Line) but rather Kenneth Mac Alpin.

His mother was supposedly a Pictish Princess.

Actually the Scots never conquered the Picts, rather the Pict conquered the Scots 9the Dalrieade ...(I am horrrible speller)

When Kenneth came to power (being Pict Royalty) he had some banquets and in one of them, 7 Dalraida Scotstish ambassadors/royalty were killed ... hence securing the throne for him.

Though rather then keeping the two countries named uner his reign, he combined them into Alba (Which I think already existed)

So the Pictish line ended where the Scottish began ... but they are kind of the same people ... like British Colonist in American Revolution .... before they were British ... after they were American.

That is what happend to the Picts, not as grand as you thought eh?
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Old August 27th, 2006, 05:30 PM   #5

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Yes I've heard that before, but why no more mention of Picts in the rest of history? No one claimed to be of Pictish blood, but all said they were Scots Irish? You would think there would be many in the period of Celtomania that claimed Pictish lineage rather than Scots Irish.
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Old August 27th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticBard
Yes I've heard that before, but why no more mention of Picts in the rest of history? No one claimed to be of Pictish blood, but all said they were Scots Irish? You would think there would be many in the period of Celtomania that claimed Pictish lineage rather than Scots Irish.
In my opinion Scot-Irish refers to the Delraida clan (from Ireland)

Perhaps the Scots are comprised of the Picts who were part of Alba.

The Picts were mentioned in some text, such as Heather Ale, but I dont think anyone claimed thier blood. I would assume those of Kenneth Mac Alpin would be Pict but they wanted to be called Scottish (or whatever they were called)

I would venture that perhaps in some parts of where Pictland was there may still be some of Pictish blood. There surelly are, but thier blood may not be thick with Pictsih blood.
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Old August 27th, 2006, 06:22 PM   #7

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It's a pity scientists couldn't differentiate between Pictish and Scottish DNA, like the Native Americans they've found their DNA is closer to that of Central Asians than it is any other people, maybe then historians could know for certain if the Picts were Celts were or the remnants of people who inhabited the British Isles in the Era before the Celtic Invasions like how the Basques in Spain are a different racial, I say that lightly, ethnicity than their neighbors who are of Germanic, French, Moorish, and Italian (Roman) descent.
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Old August 28th, 2006, 01:20 PM   #8
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Quiet a few people actually think that the Fomorians (in Irish Mythology) are the Picts. So maybe the Picts were in Ireland a along long time ago (or primitive types of picts) and the picts were kicked out (Tuatha de Denaan defeats Fomorians) and that the Picts moved to Pictland.

I think Scientist could find DNA, its more of a matter of finding a scientist who would want too. Though I dont know if they've found any Pict corpses that have DNA traces.

EDIT: I think both the the belief above and the one below are both thought of or somewhat like that. I didnt mean to double post ops: Sorry.
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Old August 28th, 2006, 01:22 PM   #9
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Picts actually came from Scythia and came to ireland, but the Irish told them there was no land there, so they advised them to go to Britain. Though the Picts came with no women (maybe a raing party or traders?) so the irish lent them thier women though the picts had to choose the female as the Leader of them ... though I think the picts didnt do this.

I think Scientist could find DNA, its more of a matter of finding a scientist who would want too. Though I dont know if they've found any Pict corpses that have DNA traces.
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Old August 28th, 2006, 07:37 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breth
Picts actually came from Scythia and came to ireland, but the Irish told them there was no land there, so they advised them to go to Britain. Though the Picts came with no women (maybe a raing party or traders?) so the irish lent them thier women though the picts had to choose the female as the Leader of them ... though I think the picts didnt do this.

I think Scientist could find DNA, its more of a matter of finding a scientist who would want too. Though I dont know if they've found any Pict corpses that have DNA traces.
Could I get your source on the Pictish homeland being Scythia? I don't trust that at all. That's some distance for people to travel and then express absolutely no cultural similarities to the parent culture.
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