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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #21

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulius View Post
Son Of RA,

You posted two interesting images in the first post, one of Benin the other of Kongo. Both have the reference “de Stadt” in the top. Could you give us more references? When and by whom where these draws made? The thing is that the words in both sides of the images can’t be read and that, and the lack of context, diminishes the value of the images.
De Stadt is Dutch-meaning the city.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #22

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Thank you for the thread, Son of Ra.

Recently, I was looking a bit around on Ethiopia.

Usually, the Solomonic Emperors of Ethiopia simply didn't had a fixed, stable capital. In 1635, Emperor Fasilides founded Gondar, and a part of the mediaeval buildings had survived (surprisingly) well :


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 01:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulius View Post
Son Of RA,

You posted two interesting images in the first post, one of Benin the other of Kongo. Both have the reference “de Stadt” in the top. Could you give us more references? When and by whom where these draws made? The thing is that the words in both sides of the images can’t be read and that, and the lack of context, diminishes the value of the images.
i don't know much background info on the person who drew it and his source but these are from the book Description de l'Afrique, contenant les noms, la situation et les confins de toutes ses parties, leurs rivières, leurs villes et leurs habitations, leurs plantes et leurs animaux, les moers, les coûtumes, la langue, les richesses, la religion et le gouvernement de ses peuples by Olfert Dapper, published in 1686 in Amsterdam

https://books.google.hu/books?id=-YZ...page&q&f=false

or alternative link

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_lVFFVLhxVsEC

between the pages 308-309 for the image of Benin

and between the pages 320-21 Lovango

you can there zoom in for better reading the legends on the pictures, on one side they are in Dutch, the other in French

the book itself is in French so if you can speak it also share with us what does it say about these places

Last edited by Tulun; April 28th, 2017 at 01:04 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaf tuner View Post
Thank you for the thread, Son of Ra.

Recently, I was looking a bit around on Ethiopia.

Usually, the Solomonic Emperors of Ethiopia simply didn't had a fixed, stable capital. In 1635, Emperor Fasilides founded Gondar, and a part of the mediaeval buildings had survived (surprisingly) well :
Ethiopia has some impressive monuments. I recall that when I was in the university I wanted to do a paper about the Portuguese architectural influence in Gondar, but my teacher led me to other path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulun View Post
i don't know much background info on the person who drew it and his source but these are from the book Description de l'Afrique, contenant les noms, la situation et les confins de toutes ses parties, leurs rivières, leurs villes et leurs habitations, leurs plantes et leurs animaux, les moers, les coûtumes, la langue, les richesses, la religion et le gouvernement de ses peuples by Olfert Dapper, published in 1686 in Amsterdam

https://books.google.hu/books?id=-YZ...page&q&f=false

or alternative link

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_lVFFVLhxVsEC

between the pages 308-309 for the image of Benin

and between the pages 320-21 Lovango

you can there zoom in for better reading the legends on the pictures, on one side they are in Dutch, the other in French

the book itself is in French so if you can speak it also share with us what does it say about these places
Thanks! I am giving it a look! I can’t speak French very well, but I can read it, at least current French. My French is much better than my inexistent Dutch!

In the case of these images it is not easy to read, I have doubts in some letters and words, so don’t take this literally:

For Benin:
A: Houses of the Queens;
B: …. Royal heart (!)
C: … entrance (!)
D: Several Palaces of the Court
E: Solemn exit of the king
F: Nobles with horses
A person that speaks French better than me can certainly well to translate the others, because I am having an hard time…
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Old April 28th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #25

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Any discussion of "civilization" is pointless. The first thing they teach you in a decent history course is that the word is impossible to define. It always boils down to personal bias and prejudice.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #26

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Any discussion of "civilization" is pointless. The first thing they teach you in a decent history course is that the word is impossible to define. It always boils down to personal bias and prejudice.
Agreed, but for me it seems that the title of the thread is in the 19th century European concept of the word.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 02:21 PM   #27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulius View Post
... better than my inexistent Dutch! ...
"don't worry, be happy": often Dutch don't understand each other !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulius View Post
...
In the case of these images it is not easy to read, I have doubts in some letters and words ...
B: L'enceinte de la cour Royale" = The enclosure of the royal court
C: Son entrance = It's entrance (... that was easy ... cheating with French loanwords )
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Old April 28th, 2017, 02:54 PM   #28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulius View Post
Son Of RA,

You posted two interesting images in the first post, one of Benin the other of Kongo. Both have the reference “de Stadt” in the top. Could you give us more references? When and by whom where these draws made? The thing is that the words in both sides of the images can’t be read and that, and the lack of context, diminishes the value of the images.

Nothing about the images are "diminished", the Konglese one is famous painting of the capital which many people have seen. Its from Dapper, Olfert Descriptions of Africa 1670. Basically all first hand descriptions of African societies during that time. You can look it up. Good book.

The Benin one is from another person who traveled to Benin. I have to find the source for that one but its still valuable.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #29

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaf tuner View Post
Thank you for the thread, Son of Ra.

Recently, I was looking a bit around on Ethiopia.

Usually, the Solomonic Emperors of Ethiopia simply didn't had a fixed, stable capital. In 1635, Emperor Fasilides founded Gondar, and a part of the mediaeval buildings had survived (surprisingly) well :


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Thanks and good images. You should go to Ethiopia. Went there and loved the monuments. But its kinda expensive to see the very interesting ones like Gondar.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #30
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Sub Saharan Africa, that was not influenced from the outside never developed civilizations of its own. It remained too tribal and primitive.
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