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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:03 PM   #41

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And vice-versa. It's a little vague.
True, since Egypt did develope the first writing system in Africa and a few other essential elements which most likely made their way down south.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:03 PM   #42
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Why couldn't most Europeans create a civilization without influence? Why couldn't most Asians create a civilization without influence from Ancient China?
Same answer: Too tribal and primitive. They didn't need to change their ways, due to changes in nature.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:10 PM   #43
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Same answer: Too tribal and primitive. They didn't need to change their ways, due to changes in nature.
Except most of Asia before Chinese influence was far from primitive. Korea, Japan, and Vietnam have had civilization long before Chinese influence.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #44

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Except most of Asia before Chinese influence was far from primitive. Korea, Japan, and Vietnam have had civilization long before Chinese influence.
Oh, i was wrong then, did they all also develope their own writing systems independently?
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #45
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If it weren't for the Greeks and Romans, most of Europe would've been organized into clans, tribes, and shifting leagues than cities and nation-states.

A local example proves to create the better model of civilization (China, Greece/Rome, Egypt, Sumeria, Persia) and so it becomes popular to those who interact with it.
So I guess we agree, none of Europe, Australian aboriginals and Sub Saharan Africa never independently created civilizations (by your apparent standards of a civilization) whereas the Near East, East Asia and the Americas did.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #46
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Oh, i was wrong then, did they all also develope their own writing systems independently?
No, as far as I'm aware, but they had monumental architecture, advanced forms of government, and their own religious systems.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:16 PM   #47
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So I guess we agree, none of Europe, Australian aboriginals and Sub Saharan Africa never independently created civilizations (by your apparent standards of a civilization) whereas the Near East, East Asia and the Americas did.
Not even close.

Some peoples, in some parts of the world, did create their own civilizations.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:16 PM   #48

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And vice-versa. It's a little vague.
And ultimately beside the point. Complex, urbanized, environmentally taxing "civilization" is simply not always the best survival strategy for a people in a given place.
(Jared Diamond gets that much right on the broad scale. A more nuanced comparative work, which I heartily recommend to any who have not read it, is Civilizations: Culture, Ambition, and the Transformation of Nature by Felipe Fernandez-Armesto (2001). Fernandez-Armesto starts with environment but shows how reasonable human choices in the face of environment shape tradition more so than determinism. Of any kind.)
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #49

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No, as far as I'm aware, but they had monumental architecture, advanced forms of government, and their own religious systems.
Minus the Monumental Architecture, many African groups had all those.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #50
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Minus the Monumental Architecture, many African groups had all those.
Benin had its great earthen walls, Zimbabwe its stone encampments, Aksum its burial chambers and stele, etc.
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