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Old October 4th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #21

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The Mamluks were not Arabs. the Bahri dynasty (1250-1382) were of Cuman-Kipchak Turkic origin. While the Burji dynasty (1382-1517) were of Circassian origin.

However the state was largely Arabized in culture, costumes, and the administrative language. It's interesting that the Mamluk commander Faris ad-Din Aktai took Al-Mostareb as a title (Meaning the Arabized)
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Old October 4th, 2017, 09:32 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by Ighayere View Post
I think that the point that some other posters are getting at is that the most advanced Egyptian culture, instead of arising in the geographical "center" of Egyptian land, or in the northern part, in lands closer to the Middle East, instead arose in that part of Egyptian land which is closer to "Nubia," so this should make it likely that there indeed were some early influences coming from that direction as some scholars have suggested.

In that respect the Egyptian case actually doesn't mirror the Greco-Roman case at all. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the most advanced/sophisticated early Greek states (Minoan and Mycenaean) do not seem to have suddenly arisen right where "Greek" land comes closest to "Italian" land.
upper Egypt was fertile and arable for extensive agricultural productivity. The sophisticated Egyptian culture didn't rose out of supposed Nubian influence. I presume the geographical proximity between the two regions are big factor in your opinion that legitimate the renaming? I am yet to find any major conclusive Nubian influence.

We should look instead; What are the Nubian influence on the administrative, architectural, and artistic principles of the Egyptians? The Nubio-Egyptian term is best suited only for Nubia as a whole and not Egypt which has it's own distinctive civilization. It was actually largely influenced by Mesopotamian civilization than anything else.

And for the Greco-Roman, i was responding to a member post whether it mirror Egypt's case or not. Greek civilization is Greek. While it's reasonable to use Greco-Roman for Roman civilization.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 10:24 PM   #23

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It seems some here didn't even bother to read my post, it's clear most of Egypts influence came from the south of Egypt not mesopotamia, that's just conjecture

But there is evidence of influence from mesopotamia, just not nearly as much that came from sites where Nubians use to inhabit and where the first cultures in lower Egypt developed (these lower Egyptian cultures were composed of near eastern farmers who brought agriculture to egypt)

[IMG] http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/...nifehandle.jpg[/IMG]

The Gebel el Arak knife

The Pitt Rivers Egyptian flint knife

Last edited by The Reality; October 4th, 2017 at 10:28 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #24

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It seems some here didn't even bother to read my post, it's clear most of Egypts influence came from the south of Egypt not mesopotamia, that's just conjecture

But there is evidence of influence from mesopotamia, just not nearly as much that came from sites where Nubians use to inhabit and where the first cultures in lower Egypt developed (these lower Egyptian cultures were composed of near eastern farmers who brought agriculture to egypt)

[IMG] http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/...nifehandle.jpg[/IMG]

The Gebel el Arak knife

The Pitt Rivers Egyptian flint knife
For a second i thought you will cite the advance Nabta playa astrology as a reference.

Frankly, I fail to see how any petty Nubian influence is worth mentioning in the context of the essential development of Egypt's civilization.

The Near eastern culture had far greater influence on upper Egypt sophistication more than Nubia. From architectural principles, ceramic pottery, the process of sun-drying adobe, recessed walls far decoration, Mesopotamian cylinder seals in early Tombs, to the step pyramids having it's origin from the Mesopotamian ziggurats and diffused to Egypt.. the list continues while you can't find parallel of the influence scale from the direction of Nubia.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #25

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For a second i thought you will cite the advance Nabta playa astrology as a reference.

Frankly, I fail to see how any petty Nubian influence is worth mentioning in the context of the essential development of Egypt's civilization.

The Near eastern culture had far greater influence on upper Egypt sophistication more than Nubia. From architectural principles, ceramic pottery, the process of sun-drying adobe, recessed walls far decoration, Mesopotamian cylinder seals in early Tombs, to the step pyramids having it's origin from the Mesopotamian ziggurats and diffused to Egypt.. the list continues while you can't find parallel of the influence scale from the direction of Nubia.
Any scholary sources to back that up? and ironically scholars have argued that alot of what you have mentioned have come from south of Egypt

Here's the problem with thinking mesopotamia had a large influence on Egypt, there isn't much evidence for that and culturally the two places were distinct and had different traditions, beliefs etc, while Egypt and Nubia have always been similar and the the further back you go it's like they were the same people (Thats the word of a researcher not mine read my my first post, paraphrase)

Nubia is older than Egypt so it makes sense it would have influenced Egypt before the other way around and I wouldn't describe it as "petty", why would the influence be upon upper Egypt and not lower Egypt which is right beside the Near East?

Mesopotamia obviously influenced Egypt in some ways though such as writing

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.ancient.eu/amp/1-15434/

*(the mesopotamian influence on Egyptian writing may not be as direct as I thought, the source I posted suggest people of the western desert had similar forms of communication seen in Egyptian hieroglyphs, but I still think mesopotamia may of influenced Egypt in literature

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Examples of clay tablets, a popular medium in Mesopotamia, dating to the late Old Kingdom (2686-2160 BCE) were found in the Dakhla Oasis, an area far away from the various locations where papyrus was produced.

Last edited by The Reality; October 5th, 2017 at 12:42 AM.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ranefer View Post
Most of your points are comedy
As opposed to emotional rants, I guess. I'll stick to my "comedy" and leave the over-dramatic wailing and weeping over "insults" in the hands of those who are better suited to that task.

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so assumed this one was as well.
You never really explained your assertion that it was the geographical center, which you stated to counter what I posted. Obviously we are not talking about Egypt as it exists today, where the boundaries are completely different, so you must have meant ancient Egypt, but you never explained your position. I would be interested in seeing your explanation.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 03:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by AncientA View Post
upper Egypt was fertile and arable for extensive agricultural productivity. The sophisticated Egyptian culture didn't rose out of supposed Nubian influence. I presume the geographical proximity between the two regions are big factor in your opinion that legitimate the renaming? I am yet to find any major conclusive Nubian influence.
I haven't actually argued for a renaming. I just don't see the idea that influences came from areas south of Egypt in early times as being that strange.

Quote:
We should look instead; What are the Nubian influence on the administrative, architectural, and artistic principles of the Egyptians? The Nubio-Egyptian term is best suited only for Nubia as a whole and not Egypt which has it's own distinctive civilization. It was actually largely influenced by Mesopotamian civilization than anything else.
I think it's up to the archaeologists to sort this all out and I'm fine with waiting on more results before jumping to any conclusions.

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And for the Greco-Roman, i was responding to a member post whether it mirror Egypt's case or not. Greek civilization is Greek. While it's reasonable to use Greco-Roman for Roman civilization.
Sure, no real objections here. Personally, I would just label Greek as Greek and Roman as Roman without hyphenating. I think when people join the two (Greek and Roman) with a hyphen what they are usually talking about is something that applies to both of the two cultures or they are discussing the entirety of their influence upon later cultures. In those cases it seems particularly appropriate to join the two with a hyphen.

Last edited by Ighayere; October 5th, 2017 at 03:49 AM.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 03:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by AncientA View Post
the process of sun-drying adobe,
This practice came specifically from Mesopotamia?

Quote:
to the step pyramids having it's origin from the Mesopotamian ziggurats and diffused to Egypt.
Is there some scholarly source which shows this? I thought that this idea was out and not in serious consideration any more, and that researchers attribute the origin of the step pyramids to an evolution from ancient Egyptian tombs.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 06:08 AM   #29
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Nubio-Egyptian should be used only among African Americans who are looking for miraculous ancestry. Or when same group of people want irritate any other group of people who have some understanding of history.
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Old October 5th, 2017, 09:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by janusdviveidis View Post
Nubio-Egyptian should be used only among African Americans who are looking for miraculous ancestry. Or when same group of people want irritate any other group of people who have some understanding of history.
???
Our ancestry is west African. How would that have any affect on us?
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