Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 4th, 2017, 12:08 AM   #291

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Dinotopia
Posts: 1,039

The 2014 study is what it is and I see no reason to engage speculation on what any potential future study may show, or any reason to cast doubt on the study without some serious scientific counter argument.

Last edited by Corvidius; December 4th, 2017 at 12:27 AM.
Corvidius is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 31st, 2017, 11:43 AM   #292
Archivist
 
Joined: Dec 2017
From: America
Posts: 126

The term 'Greco-Roman' is different. Both Greeks and Romans were politically unified (Roman Empire) and used the same name (Greeks called themselves Romioi) for centuries. They were in all practical terms seen and treated as one people, despite being distinct ethnic groups. The term Greco-Roman civilization is also largely used in the context of Westerners such as Germanics, Frenchmen, and Iberians who received significant influence from both the Romans and Greeks collectively. It's also well known that despite the influence the Greeks had on the Romans, the Romans also had a lot of influence on the Greeks. In the case of the Nubians and Egyptians, the Egyptians largely (but not exclusively) influenced the Nubians whereas the Nubian influence on Egypt was minimal in comparison. The influence here was a largely one way street. Unlike the case with the Romans and Greeks, the Egyptians and Nubians were almost always distinct politically and never saw themselves as part of a collective consciousness, but just as culturally similar neighbors.
Dzmeka is offline  
Old December 31st, 2017, 06:31 PM   #293
Archivist
 
Joined: Dec 2017
From: America
Posts: 126

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ighayere View Post
Did they explain why the viewed Ethiopians as "Arabs"? It sounds like a particularly poor way of expressing the (valid) notion that some of them have some ancestral connections to Semitic groups. But even the ones that speak Cushitic languages rather than Semitic languages wouldn't look like the "typical" sub-Saharan African from Kenya. People from Cushitic language groups usually have a different look as well.

But anyway, considering the cultural gap between Ethiopians and Arabs I don't think such a description could really be valid. Most Sudanese (northern, not South Sudanese) actually are basically culturally Arabized. It is a valid characterization with respect to culture.

Actually - and I don't want to derail the topic so I won't elaborate on this - the Nubian/Sudanese area always had a substantial number of people there that weren't "typical sub-Saharan Africans" (as you put it) in terms of physical features, even before any Egyptian invasion. Just like Ethiopia has always had such people.
East Africans look almost Caucasoid, which is significantly different to what most Kenyans (and Bantus in general) look like. I guess they associate Caucasoid/Caucasoid-like features with Arabs since they are the most numerous there. The Sudanese are also technically Arab for the most part and share a lot of cultural and phenotypical overlap with Ethiopians and Somalis (Somalia even has Arabic as one of it's official languages).

It can be compared to how some Australians group all people of the Mediterranean region as generic 'wogs' or how some Westerners call Iranians (and people in their neighboring countries) 'Arabs' despite them not being Arabs.
Dzmeka is offline  
Old December 31st, 2017, 06:52 PM   #294

Ighayere's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,546

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
East Africans look almost Caucasoid, which is significantly different to what most Kenyans (and Bantus in general) look like. I guess they associate Caucasoid/Caucasoid-like features with Arabs since they are the most numerous there. The Sudanese are also technically Arab for the most part and share a lot of cultural and phenotypical overlap with Ethiopians and Somalis (Somalia even has Arabic as one of it's official languages).

It can be compared to how some Australians group all people of the Mediterranean region as generic 'wogs' or how some Westerners call Iranians (and people in their neighboring countries) 'Arabs' despite them not being Arabs.
The thread has already run its course, really.

I wasn't asking for information about East Africans. I just wanted an explanation about a detail in that specific story, which was subsequently provided by the poster I asked.
Ighayere is offline  
Old January 1st, 2018, 08:39 AM   #295
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Ohio Valley
Posts: 15

The Nile Valley was originally a cultural continuum. Western Egyptologist created the separation between Kemet and Ta-Seti in a purely racial since.

The Niger-Congo speakers were the primary population of Kemet.

http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards...niger-speakers

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by TaSeti; January 1st, 2018 at 08:41 AM.
TaSeti is offline  
Old January 1st, 2018, 08:48 AM   #296

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Dinotopia
Posts: 1,039

The dog barked and the caravan moved on....
Corvidius is offline  
Old Yesterday, 01:54 AM   #297
Citizen
 
Joined: Oct 2017
From: UK
Posts: 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
We often use the phrase "Greco-Roman" as if the two civilizations were intrinsically connected, and of course, they were. Rome has other influences, such as the Etruscans, and climbed to much higher heights than Greece, but did so with a strong foundation of Greek philosophy, science, art and architecture. The Greeks had already paved the way for the success of the empire by defeating Persia and marching to India, and the language of the Roman empire was not Latin, but Koine, a form of Greek. When the Roman cycle was spent and the empire in the west collapsed, classical culture continued in the east under a thousand years of Greek emperors.

Can it be said that the Nubians were intertwined with Egypt in a similar fashion? Egypt also had other influences, such as the Merimde culture, but Egypt was united from the South and it was the Nubians who contributed the cattle culture, pottery, and most farming practices. Hieroglyphics and mastaba building come from the south, and it is possible that the Nubians contributed iconography. The Nubians served as good soldiers for the Egypians, and just as Rome had its Greek emperors, there was AT LEAST one Nubian dynasty.

What are some more of the similarities and differences in the two situations?
Cattle farming and all farming originated in the MID EAST and was taken into Egypt by the Middle Eastern Farmers. Merimde, Maadi and other Lower Egyptian Cultures were Mid East in origin. The First Culture in Upper Egypt was also Mid East in origin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasian_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture

Ancient Egyptians made their pottery:
https://www.veniceclayartists.com/egyptian-pottery/
Indie 2012 is offline  
Old Yesterday, 01:58 AM   #298
Citizen
 
Joined: Oct 2017
From: UK
Posts: 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaSeti View Post
The Nile Valley was originally a cultural continuum. Western Egyptologist created the separation between Kemet and Ta-Seti in a purely racial since.

The Niger-Congo speakers were the primary population of Kemet.

Hapi Valley Origins and Dispersal of "Niger-Congo speakers" | Egyptsearch Reloaded

Click the image to open in full size.
The true descendants of the ancient Egyptians who have been in place going back 30 000 years are the Copts. Then of course there was the DNA results from Abusir El Meleq and 3 other sites which shows all these ancient mummies carried MID EAST MTDNA. Ancient Egyptians are the modern Copts.
Indie 2012 is offline  
Old Yesterday, 02:01 AM   #299
Citizen
 
Joined: Oct 2017
From: UK
Posts: 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
East Africans look almost Caucasoid, which is significantly different to what most Kenyans (and Bantus in general) look like. I guess they associate Caucasoid/Caucasoid-like features with Arabs since they are the most numerous there. The Sudanese are also technically Arab for the most part and share a lot of cultural and phenotypical overlap with Ethiopians and Somalis (Somalia even has Arabic as one of it's official languages).

It can be compared to how some Australians group all people of the Mediterranean region as generic 'wogs' or how some Westerners call Iranians (and people in their neighboring countries) 'Arabs' despite them not being Arabs.
No one outside the Arabian Peninsula is genetically Arab. The term 'Arab' is usually related to culture.
Indie 2012 is offline  
Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM   #300

Dios's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Mar 2017
From: Colorado
Posts: 232

--- decided to delete my text & bail out

Last edited by Dios; Yesterday at 05:36 PM.
Dios is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History

Tags
egypt, intertwined, nubians, nubioegytpian, phrase



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"YES" does not mean "MAYBE", and "Regret"≠"RAPE" Abhishek Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 110 January 7th, 2016 05:17 PM
Historical Terminology of "Telangana", "Telugu", and "Andhra" civfanatic Asian History 20 September 28th, 2014 07:41 PM
who coined the phrase "may we not love alike?" CIowa European History 8 July 10th, 2011 02:41 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.