Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 16th, 2017, 06:50 AM   #81

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
So, you have "misread" things, and you, and you are not alone, persist in saying "south", "southerly" etc in order to try and make it seem that something comes from Nubia when it does not. Something either comes from Nubia or it does not. If this whatever it is you mention comes from North of the first cataract, then it is from Egypt. You also misrepresent the normal terminology to make it seem that Upper Egypt is the "South" when I am sure you well know that all of Egypt South of the Delta is Upper Egypt. Even Middle Egypt is in fact in Upper Egypt. Geographically, the beginnings of Ancient Egypt come mostly from the South, but still within Egypt, still North of the first cataract. This is a fact that no sleight of hand with terminology will make vanish.

You have not shown your workings, and to overturn the status quo the onus is on you to do so by presenting your case. Trying to say that some Nubian pyramids may be as old as the Egyptian pyramids is risible, and you know it.

I am not insulting you by pointing out your errors and distractions, you are insulting commonsense with, at best, supposition in place of solid evidence to try and show that Egypt is, essentially, the child of Nubia, or at least an equal partner. This is just not so. Please show your workings.

Go back and read my post, you know at this stage Nubia does not equal monolithic society, I've presented everything that I need to show what I was talking about

And can you please stop acting acting childish, it's clearly obvious that there was no geographical barrier in ancient times known as the "first cataract" its a modern thing and even the researcher I posted in the first page said it didn't exist in the same sense as it does today.

Now address what I have posted that clearly is showing a mostly Nubian and saharan relation and stop deflecting.

Last edited by The Reality; October 16th, 2017 at 07:14 AM.
The Reality is offline  
Remove Ads
Old October 16th, 2017, 06:56 AM   #82

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
How can I or anybody "downplay" something that does not exist, and for you to go as far as now saying that Nubia had the "most" contribution to Ancient Egypt is simply bizarre and defies all accepted knowledge.

I know why some posters, with more knowledge than me on Ancient Egypt, do not venture into threads like this, and that is because it is woo from the fringe, or should that be gringe, and are tired of repeatedly needing to do this
I didn't say "Nubia" go back and read the source I posted I'm clearly talking about the southern types that came from Nabta Playa as well as others such as the neolithic nubian and saharan cultures, and yes even Nubians not the later societies you see in Nubia, that you seem to detest so much, the source I posted also suggests that people from the western desert also had an effect on Egypt.

Last edited by The Reality; October 16th, 2017 at 07:08 AM.
The Reality is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #83

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Crows nest
Posts: 1,872

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reality View Post
Go back and read my post, you know at this stage Nubia does not equal monolithic society, I've presented everything that I need to show what I was talking about

And can you please stop acting acting childish, it's clearly obvious that there was no geographical barrier in ancient times known as the "first cataract" its a modern thing and even the researcher I posted said it didn't exist in the same sense as it does today.

Now address what I have posted that clearly is showing a mostly Nubian and saharan relation and stop deflecting.
You have an obligation, if you are serious, to show that Nubia, Nubians, "Southerners" or what any other terminology you wish to use for peoples from below the first cataract, a real boundary, are the progenitors of Ancient Egypt. It would be interesting to hear your opinions in your own words, and not just giving links to what are sometimes sources that do not back you up, or, in the case of Nabta Playa, you misuse.

Over a number of posts you have presented Nabta Playa as being tantamount to hard evidence of having an influence on Ancient Egypt. I would like you to flesh this out and present your case for this. Given that über expert Mark Lehner cannot do this should not be a bar to you filling in the gaps, surely. And speaking of gaps, the gap in time between the Nabta Playa stone circle and the Step Pyramid is the about the same as the gulf in time between us and Thutmoses III, 3,500 years. Given that the Nabta Playa stone circle exists as one of a kind, at least in that part of the world, if it had anything to do with Ancient Egypt, why are there no copies in Egypt? Are you suggesting a link between Nabta Playa and the Step Pyramid? if so, what? If you think there is, do you think it is star related, and if so, of what bearing would that have on the Step Pyramid, or even the Great Pyramid, and then the discussion could expand enormously.

As for me acting "childishly", well, really, please.
Corvidius is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:23 AM   #84

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

You are no different from those you condemn Corvidius, you won't even admit Egypt had southern influence that does not originate from Egypt or "above the first cataract" to a high degree but rather like I said you downplay it as if it was insignificant making you a hypocrite, because if we were to talk about near eastern influence you probably wouldn't say anything if it was being exaggerated.
The Reality is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #85

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
You have an obligation, if you are serious, to show that Nubia, Nubians, "Southerners" or what any other terminology you wish to use for peoples from below the first cataract, a real boundary, are the progenitors of Ancient Egypt. It would be interesting to hear your opinions in your own words, and not just giving links to what are sometimes sources that do not back you up, or, in the case of Nabta Playa, you misuse.

Over a number of posts you have presented Nabta Playa as being tantamount to hard evidence of having an influence on Ancient Egypt. I would like you to flesh this out and present your case for this. Given that über expert Mark Lehner cannot do this should not be a bar to you filling in the gaps, surely. And speaking of gaps, the gap in time between the Nabta Playa stone circle and the Step Pyramid is the about the same as the gulf in time between us and Thutmoses III, 3,500 years. Given that the Nabta Playa stone circle exists as one of a kind, at least in that part of the world, if it had anything to do with Ancient Egypt, why are there no copies in Egypt? Are you suggesting a link between Nabta Playa and the Step Pyramid? if so, what? If you think there is, do you think it is star related, and if so, of what bearing would that have on the Step Pyramid, or even the Great Pyramid, and then the discussion could expand enormously.

As for me acting "childishly", well, really, please.

Once again many words but no substance,

My first intention was responding to your erroneous claims on the first page, I did that and now you claim I "misuse" evidence for my case (even though it clearly supports what I have said)

I've posted multiple sources showing that there is clearly a intertwined relationship between saharan, nubian and Egyptian cultures, the sources agree and also make it evident that the dominant influence on Egypt is saharan and Nubian(if it offends you to call Nabta playa nubian you can call whatever you will but the Society is in Nubia ).

Mark Lehner still agreed and said himself many aspects of the prehistoric society had similarities to the layer dynastic Egyptian societies.

Last edited by The Reality; October 16th, 2017 at 07:36 AM.
The Reality is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #86

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Crows nest
Posts: 1,872

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reality View Post
You are no different from those you condemn Corvidius, you won't even admit Egypt had southern influence that does not originate from Egypt or "above the first cataract" to a high degree but rather like I said you downplay it as if it was insignificant making you a hypocrite, because if we were to talk about near eastern influence you probably wouldn't say anything if it was being exaggerated.
And you dare accuse me of being childish and insulting, hm.

Again, "Southern" influence, from where? from whom? In that other thread I did not, and do not now state that there was no contact between Egyptians and Nubians, so that calls out that misrepresentation of me. I dispute that Nubia, or as it has now become, "Southerners", why the change in terminology by the way? had any influence on the creation and the culture of Ancient Egypt. Perhaps you may wish to take back calling me a hypocrite as I have not changed my position once over several threads, and have not found the need to make odd changes in terminology, which can only have the intention of obscurantism. In previous threads it was Nubians, what next, "outsiders", "others", "them"...
Corvidius is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #87

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Crows nest
Posts: 1,872

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reality View Post
Once again many words but no substance,

My first intention was responding to your erroneous claims on the first page, I did that and now you claim I "misuse" evidence for my case (even though it clearly supports what I have said)

I've posted multiple sources showing that there is clearly a intertwined relationship between saharan, nubian and Egyptian cultures, the sources agree and also make it evident that the dominant influence on Egypt is saharan and Nubian(if it offends you to call Nabta playa nubian you can call whatever you will but the Society is in Nubia ).

Mark Lehner still agreed and said himself many aspects of the prehistoric society had similarities to the layer dynastic Egyptian societies.
The "no substance" is from you.

I have asked if you will discuss why you think Nabta Playa has an influence on Ancient Egypt, and what this presumed influence could be in relation to the pyramids, or anything else as I would not want to straight-jacket you. RSVP

Last edited by Corvidius; October 16th, 2017 at 07:45 AM.
Corvidius is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #88

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
And you dare accuse me of being childish and insulting, hm.

Again, "Southern" influence, from where? from whom? In that other thread I did not, and do not now state that there was no contact between Egyptians and Nubians, so that calls out that misrepresentation of me. I dispute that Nubia, or as it has now become, "Southerners", why the change in terminology by the way? had any influence on the creation and the culture of Ancient Egypt. Perhaps you may wish to take back calling me a hypocrite as I have not changed my position once over several threads, and have not found the need to make odd changes in terminology, which can only have the intention of obscurantism. In previous threads it was Nubians, what next, "outsiders", "others", "them"...
I changed nothing, they were a Nubian like group in Southern Egypt my use of different terms is completely irrelevant and you taken note of it and writing that point post to it is just more deflection on your part.
The Reality is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #89

Corvidius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Crows nest
Posts: 1,872

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reality View Post
I changed nothing, they were a Nubian like group in Southern Egypt my use of different terms is completely irrelevant and you taken note of it and writing that point post to it is just more deflection on your part.
Oh, so from Nubian to "Nubian like group", deflection not....
Corvidius is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #90

The Reality's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Ireland, Dublin
Posts: 922

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
The "no substance" is from you.

I have asked if you will discuss why you think Nabta Playa has an influence on Ancient Egypt, and what this presumed influence could be in relation to the pyramids, or anything else as I would not want to straight-jacket you. RSVP

Go back and read what I have posted,

Nabta Playa has star alignments just like the pyramids and it has similar aspects to AE just like Mark Lehner said.
The Reality is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History

Tags
egypt, intertwined, nubians, nubioegytpian, phrase



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"YES" does not mean "MAYBE", and "Regret"≠"RAPE" Abhishek Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 110 January 7th, 2016 04:17 PM
Historical Terminology of "Telangana", "Telugu", and "Andhra" civfanatic Asian History 20 September 28th, 2014 06:41 PM
who coined the phrase "may we not love alike?" CIowa European History 8 July 10th, 2011 01:41 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.