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Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


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Old November 3rd, 2017, 07:18 PM   #111

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Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
If anything, Ancient Egypt is under rated. Strip away the representations of the gods and leave only the concepts and there is a philosophy. Far too many people look at a statue of a human body with an animal head and see it as a primitive totem. That is what statues of Zeus or Athena were, and intellectually hollow. The pyramids were not just a pile of stones with a corpse inside them, they were an interface between this world and the heavens. The tomb of Hadrian is just a tomb, or was of course. Then there is the beginning of classical Greek statues, the Kouroi, which are directly copied from Egypt. No Egypt, then possibly no "Dying Gaul", "Aphrodite", "Laocoon" and all the rest. No Egypt and maybe no concept of God as we have now, just a bunch of amoral drunkards having a good time in Olympus, Valhalla or wherever.
What are the legacies of ancient Egyptians?
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 07:48 PM   #112

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What are the legacies of ancient Egyptians?

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Old November 3rd, 2017, 08:44 PM   #113
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1. So you're telling me linguistically similar groups are less likely to be racially related [AE and Cushites] than dissimilar ones? lol. ok

2. Can you please cite an academic use of the term Hamo-Semitic?

3. There's nothing politically correct about the term Afro-Asiatic, considering 5 of the 6 branches reside and developed in Africa. [Berber, Cushitic, Omotic, Chadic, Egyptian]. Only Semitic can be found outside the continent. And even then, Semitic languages like Amharic can be found in Ethiopia

4. Please provide academic evidence for your claim that Egyptians were a branch of the white race.
The fact that the ancient Egyptians were white is as self evident as saying the Romans were white. No further evidence is needed other than what can be observed and discerned. Are you now going to deny that the Romans were white? Perhaps you believe Julius Caesar was a Bantu tribesman? LOL!

Last edited by Lord Harry; November 3rd, 2017 at 08:46 PM.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 02:03 AM   #114

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What are the legacies of ancient Egyptians?
Maybe not the first characters that can be used in writing, but the first proper writing system.

In mathematics:
Undisputed - first use of the decimal system.
Disputed - fractions and algebra.

In measuring time:
Sun dial
Water clock
Calendar

Chemistry - via alchemy via Kemet.

Health:
Medicine - In that while all other cultures had some form of healing, the Egyptians were the first to formalized it. The information in the Edwin Smith Papyrus is thought to have it's origins from around 3,000 BC.

The concept of "Cleanliness is next to godliness". They did not known about germs of course, but in their desire to remain clean they provide a model for the later Roman "Public health system". They also invented the shower.

Architecture: Classical architecture has it's roots in Egypt, not all the forms, but the basics.

Art:
They did not invent art, but provided a coherent template for what we have today. Classical Greek art begins with the Kouroi which are copies of Egyptian monumental striding statues. Also, as I presented in another post, they provide the first instances of naturalistic art.

Philosophy:
This can be said to be any religious system, and so it's origins lost in deep time. However, while what we see as philosophy today is from the Greeks, the Egyptians had their philosophy made tangible in stone. The layout of the temples is their philosophy, but because it is immovable, literally set in stone, and bound with ritual, it is difficult for us to perceive their philosophy. I recommend the works of R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz to gain a better understanding of this aspect as regards temple layout. He is of course controversial. For the actual religion, then there is no better than Jan Assmann, followed by Erik Hornung.

The concept of God in the Abrahamic religions. Highly contentious, but, speaking only for myself, blindingly obvious, as blinding as the rays of the Sun....

I'm sure I missed some things, but this is just what immediately comes to mind.

Last edited by Corvidius; November 4th, 2017 at 02:06 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 06:51 AM   #115
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The fact that the ancient Egyptians were white is as self evident as saying the Romans were white. No further evidence is needed other than what can be observed and discerned. Are you now going to deny that the Romans were white? Perhaps you believe Julius Caesar was a Bantu tribesman? LOL!
In other words, you have no evidence? Cool
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Old November 4th, 2017, 07:31 AM   #116
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In other words, you have no evidence? Cool
You are being intentionally obtuse. Do you really want me to demolish your fringe claims with cold hard Egyptological science?
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Old November 4th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #117
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The fact that the ancient Egyptians were white is as self evident as saying the Romans were white. No further evidence is needed other than what can be observed and discerned. Are you now going to deny that the Romans were white? Perhaps you believe Julius Caesar was a Bantu tribesman? LOL!
That largely depends on what you consider white.
I for one consider anyone who isn't Sub Saharan white, but it seems that the term Sub Saharan is up for debate now. According to a couple of Algerians I've spoken to, they consider Sub Saharan to be anything below central Algeria, because people start getting darker in southern Algeria according to them, and to some people on Historum Sub Saharan doesn't begin until south of the equator.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 08:12 AM   #118
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Since I tire of reading these off topic arguments, I'm going to list a bunch of points, both sides that I hope everyone could agree on.

1)the overwhelming majority of Egyptians were rather light skinned

2)there was a sizable minority of Egyptians that were of "Black" ancestry(15% is the ceiling of this from what I've read on here though it could be considerably lower)

3)Points 1 and 2 are not what the "Afrocentric" dispute on this topic is usually about but rather the Pharaohs who are also overwhelmingly light skinned but there's hundreds of pharoahs and some have been shown to have African features and more(including Ranefar examples) have had pretty dark skin that would get you labelled black in the Western world. Like 1-2 this is a minority out of hundreds, the percentage I'm not going to guess. Also no, 25th dynasty is not what's being cited here!

4)Egypt has much more connection to the Middle East than sub-saharan Africa. Egypt is African because Europeans decided to cut a big hole between Egypt and the Middle East.

5)Egyptians were on average darker than the Romans and there were far more sub-saharan Africans in Egypt.

I don't want to respond to and I just want to put out things I think should be agreeable to both sides so I can get back to reading about whether Egypt is overrated or not.

Last edited by Emperor of Wurttemburg 43; November 4th, 2017 at 08:19 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #119

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First we need to define the concept of whiteness in that context instead of making false impressions on ancient Egyptians skin pigmentation. This is reverse distortion of Egypt's racial components, Which is frankly not any different than the Afrocentric one. Needless to say that it take extra mental capacity to reach the conclusion that your average Egyptian resemble the skin tone of Ragnar lothbrok, or even your typical Italian. I will literally pop my eyes if proved otherwise, Since no practical use is hoped from her. That being said, Egyptian skin tone is often olive, That's deliberately emphasized by their artistic depictions compared to the Jet "Black" and "White" ethnic groups found on their wall paintings.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #120
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Your entire post is a straw man argument. Just because a certain population is racially related to another doesn't necessarily mean they will speak a language from the same linguistic family. And including the term "Afro" Asiatic is yet another example of political correctness running amok in academia. The proper linguistic name is Hamo-Semitic.

And yes, some time during the Neolithic Period, the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians migrated into the Nile Valley from the regions of the Levant and Anatolia. The ancient Egyptians were part of what is known as the Mediterranean branch of the white race, along with Greeks, Italians, and Berbers.

? ' white race ' ?

When a Nubian became a pharaoh, did he become an Egyptian or remain a Nubian ?
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