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Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


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Old January 10th, 2018, 08:16 PM   #421

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Remember that judge who said "I can't define porn but I know it when I see it!" It's one of the most subjective things in the world.

I'm referring to the Turin Papyrus *TYPE*. It's easy to find pictures of that on the web. There's tons more of it: scratched on walls of mines, public places, homes, ostraca littering the ground, random pieces of papyrus ... even tomb art. Without being too graphic, people enthusiastically doing stuff ... to each other. It was apparently very popular and accepted, along with stuff like fishing, catching birds, taking the kids for a boat ride. Just somethin' that we do.....

There wasn't a concept of "premarital" sex. To get married, you just moved in together. However, once it started, just like relationships, a whole new set of rules applied. Infidelity was a huge no-no. Divorce was very formal with things being divided down the middle ... unless there was a prenupt. They had courts for marital issues like infidelity & divorce & property stuff.

No sooner did the "edit" time pass, when I kind of remembered a Babylonian carving along the same lines.

PERSONALLY, I see those fertility figures as more of a religious type thing ... but that's me. Remember the judge.


Oh! I can see how it could be interpreted that I said Egyptians invented it. That's not what I meant at all. I meant it's preposterous to believe that it took so long to appear, there must have been earlier images in other cultures of EXACTLY the same topics.

Last edited by Dios; January 10th, 2018 at 08:27 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 03:34 PM   #422

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Originally Posted by VHS View Post
If you talk about Indian and Chinese civilizations, which are still extent today, they had little interactions with ancient Egyptian civilization.
There was trade contact between ancient Egypt and India.

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Ancient Egyptian trade
Ancient Egyptian trade consisted of the gradual creation of land and sea trade routes connecting the Ancient Egyptian civilization with Syria, Western Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa, and India.
Ancient Egyptian trade | Ancient Egypt Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia
Here is a map of ancient trade routes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade#...Silk_route.jpg

Last edited by Radrook; February 10th, 2018 at 03:39 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 05:35 AM   #423
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I honestly find all those civilizations interesting, but when talking about ancient civilization, Egypt is the first thing that comes to mind.
Maybe that's because Egyptian material achievements are very publicized but not its cultural achievements, in fact these look much less well known than Greek ones. I know very little about Egypt but a several things that you write contradict what I read about its culture.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 06:11 AM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHS View Post
If you talk about Indian and Chinese civilizations, which are still extent today, they had little interactions with ancient Egyptian civilization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
There was trade contact between ancient Egypt and India.



Here is a map of ancient trade routes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade#...Silk_route.jpg
Trade with India was done through intermediaries, which means Ancient Egyptians weren't exposed to Indian civilization, at least not until Ptolemaic period. Only during the late Achaemenid period, or even latter during the early Hellenistic period, did the ships sail from the Red Sea to the coasts of India.
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Old August 11th, 2018, 12:33 PM   #425
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I mean just because I mistook him for a "her", it's an insult? Is there something wrong with women? Typical muslim mentality.

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Why'd you over-generalize like that?
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Old August 11th, 2018, 03:38 PM   #426

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Originally Posted by Yōḥānān View Post
Maybe that's because Egyptian material achievements are very publicized but not its cultural achievements, in fact these look much less well known than Greek ones. I know very little about Egypt but a several things that you write contradict what I read about its culture.
I mean, no Egyptian poem or play is as famous as the works of Homer and Sophocles nor is any Egyptian philosopher (and to make matters worse, the use of the term "Egyptian philosophy" itself was made controversial by Mary Lefkowitz) as famous as Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, but people definitely know about Ramses, Hatsheput and Nefertiti (Cleopatra as well as hardly anyone knows that she was actually Greek), the term pharaoh and the practice of mummification are universally known, the pyramids of Giza are more popular than even the Parthenon itself, the gods Isis, Osiris and Anubis are almost as renowned as any of the Greek gods, and Egypt has almost as much tourism as Greece, with most tourism going to ancient Egyptian ruins than to any of the Islamic portions of the country.

The popularity of Egypt and its achievements are definitely very well-known and completely comparable to the Greeks and Romans. Heck, they're the yardstick used to measure Greek and Roman achievements, as well as the achievements of other civilisations like China.
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Old August 11th, 2018, 04:02 PM   #427

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I originally said that it was hard to overrate Egypt, but now I really think they are. Martin Bernal was incapable of thinking that the rest of Africa had civilisations comparable to Egypt and thought that Africans should only look at Egypt and nowhere else, when you have the Nok civilisation (that archaeologists call "culture" to utterly denigrate and insult them) of Nigeria or achievements like the domestication of palm oil and discovery of many uses of it, as well as African sculpture like Benin bronzes and what not. Of course, one could say that in antiquity, Egypt was the only African "civilisation" or any renown, aside from maybe the Nok, but even that is not true.

The lands of Punt traded further south showing how they were "civilised", and we have the migration by sea of peoples from today's Swahili coast and Madagascar to Southeast Asia several thousands of years before Pharaonic Egypt even came into existence, which is an achievement of similar merit to the building of pyramids, obelisks and palace complexes, and is arguably a naval feat superior to anything the Egyptians ever did.

Really, the monumentalism and literacy of Egypt is massively overrated. One would think that a people so advanced wouldn't be conquered by non-literate societies that had no monumentalism to speak of (at least before the conquest) like the Hyksos, Berbers, Sea Peoples and Medes. In this, I sympathise with the attempt by the likes of Christian Jürgensen Thomsen and Jacob Grimm of establishing how the Germanics were equally as civilised as the Greeks and Romans despite lacking monumentalism and a vast literary tradition.
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Old August 11th, 2018, 04:03 PM   #428

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I think Egypt has been popular since ancient times because it appeals to a basic desire to find hidden treasure, especially exquisitely crafted mysterious magical treasures, made of gold, and hidden in tombs. And the pyramids stand on their own. Kids love Egypt just as much as adults, and it embodies childhood dreams or tends to re-awaken them. And, it doesn't hurt to have created the amazing temples and monumental architecture, and to show up in the OT, too.
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Old August 11th, 2018, 04:23 PM   #429

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Also the stuff in Tut's tomb. Truly wonderful things; arguably the greatest treasures surviving from antiquity.
The thrones alone..

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old August 11th, 2018, 05:03 PM   #430

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Originally Posted by Todd Feinman View Post
Also the stuff in Tut's tomb. Truly wonderful things; arguably the greatest treasures surviving from antiquity.
The thrones alone..

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
Those have to be restored. No way can't they still be in such good state.

Also, how much funding is destined to Egyptological archaeology in comparison to other archaeological research?
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