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Old October 14th, 2017, 01:49 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricster4455 View Post
In your opinion, it's a stupid topic, call it whatever you want, it's still opinion

As for "stupid topic", right, so every topic you disagree with, is all of a sudden a stupid topic?




Some great statues from Mesopotamia:
https://rebekahmgiffone.files.wordpr.../100_52451.jpg
http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/...-122315015.jpg
http://www.chaldeansonline.org/photo/mesop12.jpg
http://www.crystalinks.com/sumerabu.jpg

Some great statues from China:
https://cloud.glstock.com/26407/5649...se-culture.jpg
http://www.crystalinks.com/tombs.china.statues.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5a/c1/78/5...ncient-art.jpg





Art and architecture are both subjective. There is no such thing as one art being more "primitive" compared to another. I don't think it's primitive. It's unique. You may find it primitive, but that's just your opinion.



Show me evidence of mocking the pyramids, you just made an accusation.



There is no widely accepted agreement that Egyptian pyramids are the greater than any other pyramid in the world. As I said, its subjective.

As for Mesoamerican pyramids, "small" and "without structure".
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/ce...4baafb549e.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/c9...2f8aa88d85.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Pyramid.01.jpg
http://www.aztec-indians.com/images/moon-pyramid.jpg
https://imageserver.avenso.com/image...3d0:154096.jpg

They still look aesthetic to me, even if not tall. For me, size does not matter, what matters is the look, again, that's just me

Here are some other pyramids/pyramid-like structures from Southeast Asia and India
https://sg-dae.kxcdn.com/blog/wp-con...ara-temple.jpg
http://www.utaot.com/wp-content/uplo...mple_Tower.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/61/85/ea/6...ist-places.jpg





Judaism is a blend of Babylonian and indigenous Levantine practices and beliefs. Id say Zoroastrianism has more of an influence on the abrahamic religions than Egyptian.




Stone architecture did however develop independently in many places, namely the Mesoamerican civilizations like the Inca



You are projecting your own bias, and dismissing the other civilizations as primitive, using your own bias on Ancient Egyptian art as being somehow better in appearance than other civilizations. Mesopotamia was the first civilization, and Mesopotamia even had some cultural influences on Egypt in predynastic times. These civilizations were so "inferior", yet they managed to surpass you in the later years while Egypt slowly fell behind. What about things other than art and architecture where Egyptians were so great at compared to other civilizations.

And again, please give me evidence of where exactly I "mocked" your people. You are making false accusations, just because I have a different opinion on something.

Those rubbish statues your showed prove exactly my point. Each sumerian statue looks like a 3 year old had made them. The chiense stuff looks laughable as well.

Did you ever see a human beiing that looks like this?

Click the image to open in full size.

looks like heavy case of down syndrome.

What was their problem? Incapable for real projection?

You call sumerira a "civilisation"? They lived like animals in small city states. If you label this civilisation, then evry ant state is more structured. Sumeria was at its best time less structured than Egypt in the predynastic periods.


Did you ever visit the Maya pyramides? I did in 2015. Evry Mc Donalds is more impressive than this. Build wtith small stones. Without inner structure.

Egypt stands for perfection and the highest level a human society could reach at this time.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:09 AM   #42

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The first statue is quiet realistic and life sized representation of your characteristic Chinese facial traits. The second however is probably the personal taste and target of the artist and not his incapability, which Isn't too unrealistic in my opinion. I actually favorite more.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:14 AM   #43

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There's no civilization that the immense of it's sheer achievement scale is associated with alien presence or lost knowledge by narrow minded nutjobs who constantly advocate supposed relation. Overrated? Not sure if i share your opinion.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:18 AM   #44

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Originally Posted by Ricster4455 View Post
What about things other than art and architecture where Egyptians were so great at compared to other civilizations.

That statement will provoke many hardcore Romanophiles
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricster4455 View Post
You are projecting your own bias, and dismissing the other civilizations as primitive, using your own bias on Ancient Egyptian art as being somehow better in appearance than other civilizations. Mesopotamia was the first civilization, and Mesopotamia even had some cultural influences on Egypt in predynastic times. These civilizations were so "inferior", yet they managed to surpass you in the later years while Egypt slowly fell behind. What about things other than art and architecture where Egyptians were so great at compared to other civilizations.
.
What you posted is much more primitive than what Ranefer posted.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:45 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ranefer View Post
Those rubbish statues your showed prove exactly my point. Each sumerian statue looks like a 3 year old had made them. The chiense stuff looks laughable as well.

Did you ever see a human beiing that looks like this?

Click the image to open in full size.

looks like heavy case of down syndrome.

What was their problem? Incapable for real projection?

You call sumerira a "civilisation"? They lived like animals in small city states. If you label this civilisation, then evry ant state is more structured. Sumeria was at its best time less structured than Egypt in the predynastic periods.


Did you ever visit the Maya pyramides? I did in 2015. Evry Mc Donalds is more impressive than this. Build wtith small stones. Without inner structure.

Egypt stands for perfection and the highest level a human society could reach at this time.
Lol. The most refined and realistic art was of course Egyptian and there is nothing which can compare to pyramids, even today.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:49 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricster4455 View Post
Great argument
Well, it is obvious if you compare photos, is it not?

I have a BA and 40 years of drawing behind me, believe me that when I write about art I know how to defend it. I know a lot about periods of art, styles, movements, philosophic backgrounds and intentions. Personally I'm more for expressionist approaches than realist ones but I know what it takes to reach a mastery. Egyptian art of Ekhnaton's time is something incredible, out of time and space in realist execution. Before and after they leaned more to an accepted cannon, proportion and style but were still great. Some winged bulls could compare to that but most of other art not.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by macon; October 14th, 2017 at 02:54 AM.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:54 AM   #48
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Click the image to open in full size.

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Old October 14th, 2017, 04:23 AM   #49

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Originally Posted by Ricster4455 View Post
How so would the exterior look different. I would imagine it to be the same as it was in ancient times since the pyramids. as for aesthetics, yes it is subjective. That is why I said personally I didn't find them interesting or appealing (not that they are ugly or anything). My point is pyramids can be found elsewhere outside Egypt. I find the pyramids of Mesoamerica and even pyramid/pyramid-like structures of India and Southeast Asia to be more interesting.
What is "more interesting" or "less interesting" can be very subjective. I think people are aware that there are pyramids in other places. That does not stop them from appreciating the Egyptian ones.

Different cultural groups are going to have different aesthetic preferences so even if the Egyptian pyramids have a look which you find uninteresting, to the ancient Egyptians that sort of look could have been beautiful precisely because it did not have "excessive" decoration. It could have looked serene, calm, perfect etc. by not being extremely ornate and they may have seen the most beauty in that style.

Quote:
Babylonians and Indians also had their own fractions. The Indian fractions are probably closer to what we use today. Egyptians had empirical geometry, as did the Babylonians (which is probably older than Egyptians). Axiomatic geometry/coordinate geometry were invented by the Greeks. Greeks were probably more influenced by Babylonian math than Egyptian (although Greeks learned in both places). Modern day number theorists would probably not study Egyptian fractions, but people interested in the history of mathematics might. It doesn't matter if Indians, Chinese and Greeks were later (Greeks probably were more later than the former two), all three still had advance mathematics.
I think you misunderstood me. I did not suggest that those other groups did not have fractions. I was referring to a specific type of decomposition of a rational number called an Egyptian fraction. I only brought it up to show that, even thousands of years after the ancient Egyptian state came to an end, something that they came up with was still having an influence on mathematics.

I did not say "I think that number theorists study Egyptian fractions" or "Number theorists probably study Egyptian fractions", or "Perhaps number theorists study Egyptian fractions". What I said was "number theorists study Egyptian fractions". Because some of them do.

An example of a number theorist who studied Egyptian fractions is Paul Erdos, one of the most famous number theorists.

http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~ronspubs/13_03_Egyptian.pdf

Coordinate geometry was not invented by the Greeks. It was invented by Descartes and also by Fermat, both Frenchmen. The Greeks used synthetic geometry. Coordinate geometry came much later in history. The Greeks did start axiomatic geometry, however.


Quote:
Mesoamerican calendars were almost just as similar (365 days) and Babylonian calendars I think had 12 months or so. The Greek calendar was similar to the Babylonian calendar, though we use Roman (who probably got it from Greeks) I don't know in full detail the history of calendars, though they existed in every civilization wherever agriculture started.
Yes most groups had calendars of their own. What I was getting at however is that the calendar used by most people around the world today, the Roman calendar, ultimately derives from the ancient Egyptian calendar.

". . the Egyptians, they said, were the first men who reckoned by years and made the year to consist of twelve divisions of the seasons. They discovered this from the stars (so they said). And their reckoning is, to my mind, a juster one than that of the Greeks; for the Greeks add an intercalary month every third year, so that the seasons may agree; but the Egyptians, reckoning 30 days to each of the 12 months, add five days in every year over and above the number, and so the completed circle of seasons is made to agree with the calendar." - Herodotus

https://www.loebclassics.com/view/he...LCL117.279.xml

The part in bold is why I brought this up the issue of calendars in response to your mention of astronomy. If the Egyptians were so mediocre at astronomy compared to other ancient people, why is most of the world using a calendar that they figured out by astronomical investigation?

I am not doubting that the Mesoamericans had a similar calendar, but since they were in the Americas they could not transmit that influence in ancient times the way the Egyptians did.

Quote:
Still, the Indians, Chinese, and Eastern Med civilizations were more involved in trade than Egyptians. The former three all spread their influence beyond their region.
But the Egyptian influence did spread beyond the Nile Valley.

For example, this is a sarcophagus of a Phoenician king, Eshmunazar II:

https://www.louvrebible.org.uk/index...-King-of-Sidon

Sarcophagus of Eshmunazar II, king of Sidon | Louvre Museum | Paris

He chose to use an Egyptian style coffin. . .

Quote:
Maybe in alphabet (there is some articles that say Mesopotamians influenced Egyptian alphabet, or at least gave Egyptians an idea on alphabets), but art, culture, etc were all indigenous to the Levant, and have influences coming from Asia Minor, Syria, Assyria and Babylon, not just Egypt. Same goes for architecture. Also, don't forget that Mesopotamians were trading with Egyptians as well, even in pre-dynastic times.
There is influence going both ways between Egyptians and the people of the Middle East. I don't doubt that. Both areas were advanced. On the issue of writing, nothing is really proven yet. It's just that some scholars suspect there was a transmission of the idea of writing to Egypt from Mesopotamia. But there is no "smoking gun" really proving this idea outright.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 05:11 AM   #50

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So much arrogance in this thread. Egypt, Rome etc were all great civilizations that contributed a lot for the advancement of mankind. But it is a fact that Sumer is mankind. No humanity without Sumer.
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