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Old April 14th, 2018, 02:41 AM   #1
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Morally who was wrong in conflict between muhammad and pagan meccans.


This question came to my mind when i was discussing charlie hebdo's murder,my muslim friend said that it was right to kill him as he insulted islam and their god and was doing so purposely just to incite muslims. I asked him whether or not meccans were right to persecute muhammad as muhammad was the one to insult pagan gods first??
So who was wrong in that conflict according to you guys.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 03:13 AM   #2

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Originally Posted by Zanis View Post
This question came to my mind when i was discussing charlie hebdo's murder,my muslim friend said that it was right to kill him as he insulted islam and their god and was doing so purposely just to incite muslims. I asked him whether or not meccans were right to persecute muhammad as muhammad was the one to insult pagan gods first??
So who was wrong in that conflict according to you guys.
Well, they probably found him an upstart and a troublemaker, and I can personally relate to that feeling to some degree. I do not know if they were "right" to persecute him according to the mores of that time. I do not think that he was justified in attacking the Meccans and other pagan Arabs simply because they weren't willing to recognize him as a prophet and convert to his new religion.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 02:46 AM   #3

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Why does one have to right or wrong? 2 parties disagree.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Zanis View Post
This question came to my mind when i was discussing charlie hebdo's murder,my muslim friend said that it was right to kill him as he insulted islam and their god and was doing so purposely just to incite muslims.
Your friend doesn't know anything. While those cartoons are pretty offensive and immature, its wrong to kill someone, except in self defence.

"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)

May I ask, is your friend Shia? Reason I ask is because his comment is quite similar to what Ayatollah Khomeini said about Salman Rushdie in 1989. That made me wonder if he has been listening to extreme ideas. I don't like these things.

Last edited by SufiMystic; April 16th, 2018 at 06:09 AM.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:08 AM   #5

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Your friend doesn't know anything. While those cartoons are pretty offensive and immature, its wrong to kill someone, except in self defence.

"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)
Classical Muslim lie. Let's take a look on the whole verse:

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Note the "Children of Israel", which clearly implies that this rule, for whatever reason, only affects Jews. With a bit of background knowledge we realize that Muhammad just stole this verse from the Talmud:

"Whoever destroys a soul [of Israel], it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life of Israel, it is considered as if he saved an entire world"
-Link

Now, lets take on Sura 5:33, the immediate follow-up to the often quoted "Whoever kills a man kills the entire mankind"-verse.

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,"

Shame on you and your lies, bidgaddy. Shame on you.

Last edited by Swagganaut; April 16th, 2018 at 06:19 AM.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufiMystic View Post
Your friend doesn't know anything. While those cartoons are pretty offensive and immature, its wrong to kill someone, except in self defence.

"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)

May I ask, is your friend Shia?
My friend was sunni as far as i know,although i do not know how to differentiate
between a shia or sunni by their name so i may be wrong.

Yes i too believe it was immature to kill charlie hebdo,it did bad to islam's reputation in the world
BTW what if he was a shia?
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Swagganaut View Post
Classical Muslim lie. Let's take a look on the whole verse:

.
do you seriously need to say that??

Last edited by Zanis; April 16th, 2018 at 06:36 AM.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Slak View Post
Well, they probably found him an upstart and a troublemaker, and I can personally relate to that feeling to some degree. I do not know if they were "right" to persecute him according to the mores of that time. I do not think that he was justified in attacking the Meccans and other pagan Arabs simply because they weren't willing to recognize him as a prophet and convert to his new religion.
So you do believe muhammad was wrong?
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #9

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do you seriously need say that??
Considering that it's a widely employed tactic of Muslims and Islamohpiles to cherry-pick this verse, yes.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
Why does one have to right or wrong? 2 parties disagree.
Well i am not talking about post truth society,when two parties disagree,one party most of times is more correct than other party.
i just want to know whether people here think this way or not,or what muslims think of in such a case.
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