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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:12 PM   #21

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Originally Posted by Sagapane View Post
Well than some Users should first know what they are talking about. I dont have the desire, every time to make some fascistic Turks shut their mouth. Isnt it against the Rules to give wrong informations? As if a Kurd comes here and says "NO Seljuks were Oghuz and not Turks." What a ridiculous statement.

AMONG SOCIAL KURDISH GROUPS – GENERAL GLANCE AT ZAZAS
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_people]Zaza people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Stop reducing people to ethnicities. Take your racist mindset, and display it elsewhere.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:16 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by Efendi View Post
To talk directly.
I am highly suspicious that you dont know why you call me faschist.
I dont feel any insult in this.

I have no suspicion about my "abdest" then shall I have suspicion about my "namaz".
Notice the emphasize on "race" or "ethnicity" his narrative. Reminds me a certain group within Turkey
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Old December 6th, 2016, 08:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sagapane View Post
Well than some Users should first know what they are talking about. I dont have the desire, every time to make some fascistic Turks shut their mouth. Isnt it against the Rules to give wrong informations? As if a Kurd comes here and says "NO Seljuks were Oghuz and not Turks." What a ridiculous statement.

AMONG SOCIAL KURDISH GROUPS – GENERAL GLANCE AT ZAZAS
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_people]Zaza people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
So what do you want us to say? That modern Kurds are direct descendants of Karduchi (which was a toponym and not an ethnonym, similar to Armenia) with no palatable evidence other than a linguistic coincidence that borders folk etymology?
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Old December 6th, 2016, 04:11 PM   #24

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Origin of Kurds


Kurds speak Kurdish language, a Northwestern Iranian language.That makes them closer to ancient Medes and Parthians.

My opinion is that Kurds came up from the intermixing of Hurrians and Medes and the language shift from Hurrian to Northwestern Iranian.

Many scolars regard the Corduenes as Kurds. They came up after the collapse of Greek power in Middle East. Though they were thoroughly Iranic by that time but still some minor Hurrian elements were present.
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Old December 9th, 2016, 07:30 AM   #25
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Kurdish nationalism has been trying very hard to create a Kurdish history since the 18th century. Such efforts were also supported by the West and Russia under the label of " Kurdology ". But these scholars of Kurdology were known by their political affiliations rather than their scientific qualifications. For example, Russian orientalist V. Minorsky attempted to create a legend of origin for the Kurds and wanted to introduce Medes as the ancestors of the Kurds. Even though M. Bruinessen debunked this of theory of Minorsky, he did not hesitate to declare Urartu as the Kurdish ancestors this time. But this theory was also debunked by scholars such as T. Nöldeke, M. Hartmann and Wisbach.

Nevertheless, various advocates of Kurdology claimed a 5,000-year-old Kurdish history and introduced all the archaic tribes of Mesopotamia as the ancestors of Kurds such as Gutians, Mitannis, Corduenes, Medes and Hurrians. Some of them went even further and included Hattians, Assyrians and Sumerians to the list. But there are no valuable information to consider them as the ancestors of Kurds. As the Russian historian L. N. Gumilyov stated : " Societies with no ancestors and history don't have a common language either ".

One of the main elements to understand and study the historical existence and evolution of a nation is the language. But when the Kurds are examined, it is possible to see that they don't have a common language, written documents, literary texts, archeological findings or a national mythology. As a result, it is not possible to have something out of " nothing ".

Last edited by Maotun; December 9th, 2016 at 07:44 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2016, 02:00 PM   #26
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Many scolars regard the Corduenes as Kurds. They came up after the collapse of Greek power in Middle East. Though they were thoroughly Iranic by that time but still some minor Hurrian elements were present.
What scholars and regarding based on what? Corduene? What's that?
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Old December 9th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #27

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What scholars and regarding based on what? Corduene? What's that?
This was first proposed by George Rawlinson based on lexical similarity and geographical location. Now many recent sources also support this: Revue des études arméniennes by Société des études armeniennes; The Role of Hostages in Roman Diplomacy with Sasanian Persia by AD Lee.

These sources also regard the language of Corduene as proto-Kurdish. Also, Check this online lesson on Old Iranian from University of Texas: Carduchi as Old Iranian language
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Old December 9th, 2016, 05:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mnsr View Post
This was first proposed by George Rawlinson based on lexical similarity and geographical location. Now many recent sources also support this: Revue des études arméniennes by Société des études armeniennes; The Role of Hostages in Roman Diplomacy with Sasanian Persia by AD Lee.

These sources also regard the language of Corduene as proto-Kurdish. Also, Check this online lesson on Old Iranian from University of Texas: Carduchi as Old Iranian language
" Proto-Kurdish " ? The language which is called Kurdish today is not even a universal language. There is no linguistic and grammatic unity between the dialects that are called Sorani, Kurmanci and Zazaki. The Kurds who live in different countries are unable to communicate and understand eachother. Therefore, they use Arabic, Turkish and Persian as the common language for culture and education.

Is there a single scientific book, encyclopedia that was written in Kurdish? In order to use a language for education, there must be hundreds of books on law, medicine, economy, art and culture that were written with it. For instance, there are tens of thousands of books on law, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine and art that were written in Chinese, Russian, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, German, French, Italian and Spanish.

If it is not possible to write a commercial code or a book on anatomy in Kurdish, it means you can't educate people and produce doctors, judges, teachers, economists, engineers and scientists with that language. Because languages evolve and become eligible for science after centuries. When you combine all this together with the fact that there are no literary texts, written documents or archeological findings on Kurdish, coming up with a term such as " proto-Kurdish " sounds kind of comical.

Last edited by Maotun; December 9th, 2016 at 05:14 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2016, 11:42 AM   #29

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" Proto-Kurdish " ? The language which is called Kurdish today is not even a universal language. There is no linguistic and grammatic unity between the dialects that are called Sorani, Kurmanci and Zazaki. The Kurds who live in different countries are unable to communicate and understand eachother. Therefore, they use Arabic, Turkish and Persian as the common language for culture and education.
"universal ?" I believe you mean standardised. Well Kurdish is very much a standardised language today with two varieties. The standard form of Sorani is taught in the schools of Iraq and it is an official language there. Rather after Persian, it is the second most influential Iranian language.

On the other hand, there are thousands of non-standard languages taht exist. And that doesnt stop linguists from their comparative analysis. Rather non-standard languages or dialects make linguists more interested as they are usually closer to the ground rather than the synthetic standard forms. English itself has many non-standard dialects and linguists just love to study them!
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Is there a single scientific book, encyclopedia that was written in Kurdish? In order to use a language for education, there must be hundreds of books on law, medicine, economy, art and culture that were written with it. For instance, there are tens of thousands of books on law, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine and art that were written in Chinese, Russian, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, German, French, Italian and Spanish.
Well I dont think there is anything that a Kurd cannot express in his language that an Arab or Turk or Persian can express in his language or dialect.

Every language can express everything that a human mind can think!
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Old December 10th, 2016, 12:47 PM   #30
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"universal ?" I believe you mean standardised. Well Kurdish is very much a standardised language today with two varieties. The standard form of Sorani is taught in the schools of Iraq and it is an official language there. Rather after Persian, it is the second most influential Iranian language.

On the other hand, there are thousands of non-standard languages taht exist. And that doesnt stop linguists from their comparative analysis. Rather non-standard languages or dialects make linguists more interested as they are usually closer to the ground rather than the synthetic standard forms. English itself has many non-standard dialects and linguists just love to study them!


Well I dont think there is anything that a Kurd cannot express in his language that an Arab or Turk or Persian can express in his language or dialect.

Every language can express everything that a human mind can think!
The word " universal " represents linguistic unity here. For instance, a Turk from Azerbaijan and Anatolia can easily get along. Because even though the dialects are different, the grammatic structure and language are common, which is Turkish. But the Kurds don't have a common tongue. The dialects they speak are not the language of a nation. They are only regional and tribal dialects. Languages don't become eligible for science and civilization in 50 or 100 years. A state tradition and experience with that language are needed. Is that the case for Kurdish? As explained above, can you teach law at academic level or explain the solutions of geometry problems in Kurdish? Expressing simple things in a certain dialect or teaching how to read and write with it won't make any difference.

That is the reason why the regional government in Northern Iraq also failed. They could not even manage to write a constitution in Kurdish. First, it was written in Arabic, and then translated to Sorani dialect. But they realized that significant mistakes were made with it. It is the same with education there. The vast majority of the teachers are foreigners. The most important language at schools is English. Education is mainly given in English and Arabic. The U.S. gives the right of accreditation to these universities. In other words, you can teach Kurdish dialects, sing songs, maybe write poems with it or express yourself in daily life but it is not a language of academic education or literature. It does not have such historical evolution and background.

Last edited by Maotun; December 10th, 2016 at 12:49 PM.
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