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Old August 24th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #21

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satuf View Post
If we search back to ancient history, we find that Mesopotamia was not only the birthplace of civilisation, but also the birthplace of warfare.

...

Why so bloody? Is it just the Middle East?
I don't think it used to be any bloodier than Europe was.
As Newmodelsoldier said: lots of cultures + lots of religions = lots of violence.

But a friend of mine said once: "Islam was born 622 years after Christianity, and now in this modern age, the Muslims have to put up with the same crap the Christians did 622 years ago (theocracies, religious subgroups all at each others throats,...), so I guess it's just a phase in their religion and way of life"

And what happened in Europe 600 years ago: inquisitions, crusades,...

I guess you could say that a major religion goes into puberty after 1000 years or something
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Old August 24th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintersorg View Post
I don't think it used to be any bloodier than Europe was.
As Newmodelsoldier said: lots of cultures + lots of religions = lots of violence.

But a friend of mine said once: "Islam was born 622 years after Christianity, and now in this modern age, the Muslims have to put up with the same crap the Christians did 622 years ago (theocracies, religious subgroups all at each others throats,...), so I guess it's just a phase in their religion and way of life"

And what happened in Europe 600 years ago: inquisitions, crusades,...

I guess you could say that a major religion goes into puberty after 1000 years or something
Structure of Islam and Christianity excluding Ortodoxy are different.
In Islam there haven't been any Church like institution.
There is no institution who take its power from dogmas of the religion. Thus no institution would be competitive to states.

The problem isnt seperation of state and Church as it is in Catholic world. The problem is the states are too powerfull. There are dictators.

Religion is politic tool as It's always been almost anywhere on the earth. The rulers naturally use these tools. Educating their people in religious ways. Supressing their people with dogmas they interpreated in a way that would fit their interest...

The rulers dont take their power from the dogmas of the religion, but from their source of powers, namelly military power, petrolium reveniues, foreign supports.

Last edited by Efendi; August 24th, 2011 at 10:40 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 06:20 AM   #23
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Meh true but still I like it
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Old August 25th, 2011, 07:36 AM   #24
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Doesn't seem to be more bloody. Maybe it gets more press, but in your example, the Sumerians weren't that much different than the early Greeks.

It wasn't exactly hippy trippy here in the Americas either.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:22 PM   #25
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"In Islam there haven't been any Church like institution.
There is no institution who take its power from dogmas of the religion"

So Shia's and Sunni's live happily side by side ?
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:25 PM   #26

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Originally Posted by kevg View Post
"In Islam there haven't been any Church like institution.
There is no institution who take its power from dogmas of the religion"

So Shia's and Sunni's live happily side by side ?
No they didnt.

There werent a church there were a powerfull state who have the religion.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 12:37 PM   #27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintersorg View Post
And what happened in Europe 600 years ago: inquisitions, crusades,...

I guess you could say that a major religion goes into puberty after 1000 years or something
Never actually thought of that
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Old October 31st, 2011, 02:11 PM   #28
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Actually for most of the past 1300~ years, the Middle East was fairly peaceful. There were occasional spikes in violence, but compared to other regions of the world during that time it was pretty stable. With the exception of the Crusade and the Mongol incursions, the Middle East was pretty peaceful amongst itself.

The idea it's an ever-warring hellhole is not really founded in fact. Places that we associate today with violence and war like Baghdad, Gaza etc. were very safe, peaceful places for most of their history.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #29
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Actually for most of the past 1300~ years, the Middle East was fairly peaceful. There were occasional spikes in violence, but compared to other regions of the world during that time it was pretty stable. With the exception of the Crusade and the Mongol incursions, the Middle East was pretty peaceful amongst itself.

The idea it's an ever-warring hellhole is not really founded in fact. Places that we associate today with violence and war like Baghdad, Gaza etc. were very safe, peaceful places for most of their history.
I don't necessarily agree with that but I don't think it was any more inclined to war than anywhere else.

Before Islam, there was the Persian-Roman wars , etc..

I personally think Europe was just as bad if not worse. The previous century was Europe going at war with each other; wars in which they dragged the entire world.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #30

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Civilization starts there, and because its oldest there, I figure that's why it tends to produce all the memes that drive people insane. And here these memes rub up against one another more strongly.

I do think it gets more airtime rather than being the bloodiest but again, I think that's a function of the fact it's the birthplace of the kind of some very old ideas all interwoven into the other societies of the world, ideas that make people go berserk when they come into conflict with similarly old and entrenched and complex iconic ideas.
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