Modern Egyptians and their view of ancient Egypt - Historum

Thessalonian · December 30th, 2011, 07:31 AM

This thread is directed mostly at modern Egyptian members of Historum.
It is about how they view ancient Egypt. How close do they feel to ancient Egyptians and their culture/language etc. It is important to know how modern people feel about their ancestors, especially when their ancestors are famous world-wide for their achievements.

I will be expecting all Egyptian historumites to chime in!

**Mohammed the Persian** · December 30th, 2011, 07:50 AM

Is it alright for me to step in ?

I've asked this question to many of my Egyptian friends. The vast majority of them take pride in the technological and scientific advances ancient Egyptians made (makeup comes up as #1 amongst girls

). However, they utterly dislike the Pagan aspect of the ancient Egyptians (as in they won't defend Pharaohs and such).

Darth Roach · December 30th, 2011, 08:32 AM

Doesn't Islam say that Mohammed invented everything?

**Satuf** · December 30th, 2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Roach

Doesn't Islam say that Mohammed invented everything?

Don't you be trolling much?

Ayazid · December 30th, 2011, 04:26 PM

I am not Egyptian, but my impression is that modern Egyptians are on average quite proud of the ancient Egyptians and their civilization and achievements, however as Mohammed already mentioned, they (at least the Muslims) are not very fond of the fact it was a polytheist culture. This is very palpable in the case of islamists (especially salafists). I suspect that many of them actually hate to see any "pagan" monuments and artefacts in their country (I am curious if there are any religious Greeks who feel in the same way about the polytheist heritage of their country).

It should be noted that the cultural gap between the ancient and modern Egypt is even larger than that between, let's say, ancient and modern Greeks or Romans and Italians, because Egypt has been also thoroughly arabized and mostly islamized, so it has sort of a double identity: arabo-islamic and the indigenous "coptic-pharaonic" one (I would dare to say that it's the weaker one).

Also, it is worth mentioning that in the Qur'an the figure of the Pharaoh of Moses appears as a supreme example of tyranny and disbelief and that might also contribute to the ambiguous image of the Pharaonic civilization among modern Egyptian.

Some interesting quotes:

Quote:

The civilization of medieval Egypt was essentially Arab and Muslim with no tangible Christian component, and with each century it became more so. Even those Copts who were not ready to abandon their own faith gradually adopted Arabic as their sole language. And together with Arabic they took over many of the profoundly Islamic values that were implicit in the language of the Qur'an. The furtive reminiscences of Coptic history were integrated into Muslim writing, remoulded and arrayed as forebodings of Islam Triumphant, and thus lost their character as tokens of an alternative civilization.

There was no ferment for a genuine Egyptian shu'ūbiyya, if shu'ūbiyya is meant to entail the claim of one people to the imamate by virtue of superior historical and ethnic merits. The Egyptian national sentiment instead remained low-keyed and subtle, which makes it difficult to make a clear case for medieval Pharaonism. We know of no vitriolic Egyptian Ibn Garcia. There is no scholarly Egyptian Firdawsi who - in the old surviving language - had the freedom to eulogize and thus legitimize and revive his country's pagan past.

A sorely felt key obstacle to the evolution of a fully-fledged Egyptian historical shu'ūbiyya was the undeniably sombre image of Pharaonic Egypt in the Qur'an and in Islamic tradition. Even as late as the nineteenth century Shaykh al-Tahtawi found it extremely difficult to harmonize and synthesize the splendid findings of modern European Egyptology and archaeology with the utterly negative Qur'anic stereotype of those who ruled Egypt in pre-Islamic times. There was no Anūshirwan at hand, who could be presented as hallowing the Prophet of Islam who was born under his just and wise rule. The fir'awn of Moses is the epitome of tyranny and disbelief. All efforts on the part of Egyptian writers to balance this bleak image of Egypt's pagan past within the Heilsgeschichte of Islam were bound to have only limited effects.

Regional Sentiment in Medieval Islamic Egypt
Ulrich Haarmann
Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London , Vol. 43, No. 1 (1980), pp. 55-66

**Mohammed the Persian** · December 31st, 2011, 12:53 AM

An Egyptian Christian I know takes pride in the very fact that Egypt is mentioned (and based?) in the bible

Thessalonian · December 31st, 2011, 01:59 AM

Interesting inputs so far. Let's see what Egyptians themselves think about the OP...

Niki86 · December 31st, 2011, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohammed the Persian

However, they utterly dislike the Pagan aspect of the ancient Egyptians (as in they won't defend Pharaohs and such).

They dislike the pagan aspect? What other options were there at that time?

**Mohammed the Persian** · December 31st, 2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niki86

They dislike the pagan aspect? What other options were there at that time?

Let the Egyptians speak for themselves, I suppose.

**Satuf** · December 31st, 2011, 11:52 AM

I've lived 5 years in Egypt. I've observed the Egyptian mentality.

Yes, they do very, very much feel connections between them and their ancient ancestors. Yes, Egyptians today are indeed mostly descendant of ancient Egyptians. The Arab population was never significant enough to change the demographics of Egypt.

Ancient Egypt is an inseparable part of their history. Hell, it is the beginning of their history and civilisation.

You know what the Egyptians think of the 23rd July, 1952 revolution? They think that since the fall of Pharaonic Egypt to the Greeks, no Egyptian has ever ruled Egypt until 1952!