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Old November 15th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #351
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The O and C3 haplogroups have eastern Asian origin, the N haplogroup comes from northern Eurasia. This amounts to only 12% percent of the Haplogroups present in Iran, which *might* have been bought about by Turks.

The rest is from Western Eurasia (R1a), South Asia (R2, R*), western Europe (R1b), Caucasus (J2), Arabian peninsula (J1), and the Iranian Plateau itself (G). I fail to see any strong impact of East Asian migrations in this.
That is slightly less than Turkmens who are 16%. If you think Oghuz Turks were some kind of eskimos, then you are mistaken. And its logical that during a millenium the genetice make-up changes, nothing here refutes Oghuz migrations.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #352

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Rostam, care to explain the percentages of hablogroups that I posted? Don't they show enough of Turkic percentage?

Also, you just popped up and posted some very unrelated stuff to the thread, this thread is not about genetics, mind you. And I'm sure there are other websites where you can discuss that, this website to my knowledge are not about genetics, but thats pretty what everyone in this section talks about.
You completely refuted these studies at the time I posted them, I don't know why you show a keen interest in them all of a sudden. Did you think I'm gone forever?
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Old November 15th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #353
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You completely refuted these studies at the time I posted them, I don't know why you show a keen interest in them all of a sudden. Did you think I'm gone forever?
Thats not the case at all, and as you see, none of them are telling the same thing. So what do we make out of it?

Oh, I'm always ready for your Pan-Persian rants.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #354

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That is slightly less than Turkmens who are 16%. If you think Oghuz Turks were some kind of eskimos, then you are mistaken. And its logical that during a millenium the genetice make-up changes, nothing here refutes Oghuz migrations.
Exactly, because they are already mixed. But this 16% does not show that they are 80% similar, because J2, R1b, G, I are essentially missing from the Turkmen population while they have a strong presence among Azerbaijanis. A word of advice, don't try to tread in this territory.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #355

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Thats not the case at all, and as you see, none of them are telling the same thing. So what do we make out of it?

Oh, I'm always ready for your Pan-Persian rants.
I'm not a pan-Persianist. I have already discussed my agenda and everybody who has followed my posts knows this.

EDIT: Pan-Persianism is a poor choice of words, because Persian speaking regions are very limited and most of them do not have any tendency to reunite. And there are no Persians in Azerbaijan so why would a pan Persianist be interested in that?

Last edited by hazratemahmood; November 15th, 2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #356
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I don't know what is it that we are disagreeing over if you are already aware of some things, like the Oghuz were already mixed, and that genetic make-up of populations were affected by neighbouring ones. And we don't need to be 80% same as Turkmens, because if you are going to claim that somehow Azerbaijani Turks are not Turkic on base of that, then according to the same logic neither Turkmens are, or Uzbeks and others, since we refer to Turkic genetics as that of northern Eurasia origin.

What I refuse is the attempts of making us something else. Not that we don't have other infleunces.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #357

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I don't know what is it that we are disagreeing over if you are already aware of some things, like the Oghuz were already mixed, and that genetic make-up of populations were affected by neighbouring ones. And we don't need to be 80% same as Turkmens, because if you are going to claim that somehow Azerbaijani Turks are not Turkic on base of that, then according to the same logic neither Turkmens are, or Uzbeks and others, since we refer to Turkic genetics as that of northern Eurasia origin.

What I refuse is the attempts of making us something else. Not that we don't have other infleunces.
I am not attempting to define the Azeri of Iran as Persians or anything else. The Azeri Turks are in fact unique, but they also share many traits with the people around them. Just as they share their language with the other Turkic people, they share a common genetic background with other people from the Caucasus, they share their religious background with the rest of the Shiite world, and they share a common History with the rest of the Iranians.

What you seemed to suggest was that they are in every way "Turkic", while I try to emphasize the fact that they are more than just Turks.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #358

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Thats not the case at all, and as you see, none of them are telling the same thing. So what do we make out of it?

Oh, I'm always ready for your Pan-Persian rants.
Pan-Turkism is wonderful but Pan-Persianism is not? I don't think anyone in this thread is Pan-Persian BTW.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #359
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I really doubt that you know much about Azerbaijani Turks, our traditions, history and so on...

Just as you guys have Shahname, we have Dede Qorqud and Oghuzname that are native to our heritage, culture and lands. I'm really doubtful that you are aware of our Turkic heritage and limit it to language only.

Saying that we are Turks doesn't means we are pure Turkic, perhaps you mix the both, and as you see there are many people claiming absurd things exactly on this subject, trying to create fake origins for us. And yes we are Turks, thats how Persians and others refer to us, Russians referred to us as Tatars in history, is that even a question?

Last edited by Qaraqoyunlu; November 15th, 2012 at 11:02 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #360

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Ethnic identities are complex, even people from the same background can see themselves different ways and feel more connected to certain parts of their heritage. I don't think it works to try and so narrowly define people. You can see with Turks that some really connect with the Central Asian side, some with Islam, some see themselves as more European.
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