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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #191

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Originally Posted by Midas View Post
Btw, I have a great example you should all watch people. Below you will see a lecture of JP Mallory, one of the worlds leading professors in prehistoric archaeology. At some point he mentions his distrust to DNA research. As he says and as I mentioned earlier: "Anyone doing a major DNA research, has to make a BIG BANG to make the money flowing". He also takes as an example of the Hungarian case, where within 1000 years the modern samples happened to be completely different than the ancient samples.

Just watch it and you will get what I mean...

http://youtu.be/Z0HCs6PVnzI?t=37m26s

In other words...think twice when you see DNA results. The more you think, the most trustworthy source you'll find.
When I see some DNA research, then I am not allways convinced, that all these scientist really know what they are doing. And even if they know it, they have problems to bring it in a historic context. Fortunately there are still some who know what they do. A far greater problems seems to be that even more science reporters or journalists don't know what they are writing about, even if i can understand it sometimes, because DNA research is really difficult to read.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #192

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Recently i read an article referring that English and German people are close relatives of each other.
I think Turkish people can be close to Celts rather than English since Celtic people lived in Anatolia for some time.There are many red haired Turks in Turkiye.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #193

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Originally Posted by beorna View Post
When I see some DNA research, then I am not allways convinced, that all these scientist really know what they are doing. And even if they know it, they have problems to bring it in a historic context. Fortunately there are still some who know what they do. A far greater problems seems to be that even more science reporters or journalists don't know what they are writing about, even if i can understand it sometimes, because DNA research is really difficult to read.
Very true!
I agree that journalists have no idea what they are reading often. It is not easy to understand what is written on genetic papers. For example, haplogroups connected to language or ethnic groups is wrong. I remember one article where the farmers of the fertile crescent had been labeled as Semitic speakers by a journalist, when the first carriers of that haplogroup emerged loooong time before proto-Semitic existed.

However, it is intresting to see that Mallory does not rely on modern DNA research... Not the one conducted on ancient samples e.g Ötzi. Keep in mind how many companies have offered DNA tests where more or less you decide what you want to be. Just ask yourself how reliable the data is...
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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #194

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Originally Posted by GalataTurk View Post
Recently i read an article referring that English and German people are close relatives of each other.
I think Turkish people can be close to Celts rather than English since Celtic people lived in Anatolia for some time.There are many red haired Turks in Turkiye.
English, Germans, Dutch, Dannish, Norwegians, Swedes. All of them are related both in language and partially in genetics.

Now, I agree with you about the red haired Turks. I have seen many and I am not referring to the region that is known as Galatia (I am talking as south-east as Hatay). The red haired Turks could be a result of earlier populations, such as the Hittites. I think some small percent of them could be redheads.

The Celts who came to Anatolia of course could contribute too. However, It seems they were rapidly assimilated by the Phrygians.

The Bithynians, were originally Thracians, who were known to be red haired too. That is an ancient rumour though, since it seems that Thracians were actually brownies.

In case you have heard the Greek name Pyrrhus sometime, it means "auburn red" and obviously, they had/have their readheads too.

The conclusion is that as long as R1b is present somewhere (which it is in Turkey), you should expect red haired people. Blonde too...
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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #195

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There are red haired people in the Middle East too. I think that the Indo-European migrations is a possible answer to this.

I've seen an interesting ancient reference comparing the white Persian troops with the tanned Greek ones. Obviously the tan has to do with the clothing. But I think there's a strong possibility that ancient Persians were lighter than today.

Last edited by Yaunâ; November 10th, 2012 at 01:54 PM.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #196

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Originally Posted by Yaunâ View Post
There are red haired people in the Middle East too. I think that the Indo-European migrations is a possible answer to this.

I've seen an interesting ancient reference comparing the white Persian troops with the tanned Greek ones. Obviously the tan has to do with the clothing. But I think there's a strong possibility that ancient Persians were lighter than today.
The Iranic persians so to say. Today Persians have generally Mesopotamian ancestry. Back then they came from the steppes. However, even today they are diverse.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:10 AM   #197
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I can see that the 100 years old fantasy about "red haired, blonde, white person: Indo-European speaking" ridiculously still exists.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #198

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I can see that the 100 years old fantasy about "red haired, blonde, white person: Indo-European speaking" ridiculously still exists.
Nobody said that...Uralic, Basque, Yennisian, Burushaski etc speakers can be blonde, red etc... It is not the language, but the genetic background of a group that defines such features. In the same way, IE speakers such as Indians can be dark (by all means)...
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Old November 14th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #199

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Hi! Do we have the numbers of the migrating wave of Turks that entered into Anatolia and the Greek, Armenian and other "native Anatolian if you will" people's numbers living there at the time?
yes, can we have a number already?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #200

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The authors of Kleine Geschichte der Türkei estimate that between 100-300 000 Turkmens settled in Anatolia, inhabited by between 2-3 millions of Greeks, Armenians etc., but we will probably never know for sure.

Last edited by Ayazid; November 14th, 2012 at 02:08 PM.
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