Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:06 AM   #11
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post
Several alternatives were suggested and considered, but ultimately the civilised world realised it would make the most sense to restore the Jews' homeland to its rightful owners, considering they'd already spent several thousand years living there in the first place and many Jews were actually still there.

Please note: Israel was not 'created.' That implies Israel never existed previously, which is false. Israel was reborn.



You mean put them in a foreign country with which they have no historic connection? Seriously?



It was known that the resettlement of the Jews in their historic homeland would cause a lot of trouble with people who wanted to steal it off them, but this was not considered a valid reason for denying their right to return.
You can't be serious.

At the risk of overstating the obvious, it was not any "civilized world" who arbitrarily unilaterally decided who were the "rightful owners" of this territory.

It was just the careless colonial Balfour declaration.
sylla1 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #12

antocya's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Iraq
Posts: 4,069

I support Israel's right to exist because generations have lived there now, that won't change, and it's the only home many of them have known. I do think if we could go back in time it would be better to find a different place. They do have a connection to Israel but they're not the only ones and after centuries of not living there people shouldn't expect to just go back and find it empty.
antocya is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #13

Sankari's Avatar
What we have, we hold
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: 6th Century Constantinople
Posts: 3,336
Blog Entries: 1
Cool


Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
You can't be serious.

It was not any "civilized world" who arbitrarily decided who were the rightful owners of this territory; it was just the careless Balfour declaration.
Firstly, there was nothing arbitrary about the Balfour Declaration.

Secondly, I was not referring to the Balfour Declaration. I was referring to the United Nations Resolution 141, which was not arbitrary and was passed by a majority vote. If you don't believe the United Nations represents the civilised world, I guess that's your prerogative. Enjoy your club of one.

If you haven't heard about UN Resolution 141 (and it looks like you haven't), I suggest you look it up on Wikipedia. I've provided a hotlink to make it easier for you.

No need to thank me, I'm just happy to help.

Sankari is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:14 AM   #14
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

IMHO it's just a matter of time for this thread to arrive to the Chamber.

Anyhow, personally I find little use in getting involved in another never-ending useless discussion on the claims & rights of any people for Palestine / Israel.

So I must restrict myself here to the OP at face value.

Hope everyone here may understand
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:14 AM   #15

Sankari's Avatar
What we have, we hold
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: 6th Century Constantinople
Posts: 3,336
Blog Entries: 1
Arrow


Quote:
Originally Posted by antocya View Post
I support Israel's right to exist because generations have lived there now, that won't change, and it's the only home many of them have known. I do think if we could go back in time it would be better to find a different place. They do have a connection to Israel but they're not the only ones and after centuries of not living there people shouldn't expect to just go back and find it empty.
Firstly, the Jews never ceased to live in Israel. They were still there, even after the Diaspora.

Secondly, the Jews who did not live in Israel did not expect to find it empty upon their return.
Sankari is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #16

antocya's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Iraq
Posts: 4,069

Yes you're right they never ceased to live in Israel but the majority of them did. And yes, I was being a bit facetious about expecting to find it empty, I thought that was obvious.

In your above post you seem to imply that non-Jews living in Israel stole the land from Jews, is that correct?
antocya is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #17
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post
Firstly, there was nothing arbitrary about the Balfour Declaration.

Secondly, I was not referring to the Balfour Declaration. I was referring to the United Nations Resolution 141, which was not arbitrary and was passed by a majority vote. If you don't believe the United Nations represents the civilised world, I guess that's your prerogative. Enjoy your club of one.

If you haven't heard about UN Resolution 141 (and it looks like you haven't), I suggest you look it up on Wikipedia. I've provided a hotlink to make it easier for you.

No need to thank me, I'm just happy to help.

Yes, I'm perfectly aware you are not talking about the myriad UN resolutions Olympically ignored by Israel, ergo against the whole civilized world
according to your nice rationalization above.

Even so, it was the infamous Balfour Declaration which in the most arbitrary possible way determined who were the owners of this territory.

Typical (even if in this case pretty careless) divide et impera colonial policy, BTW
sylla1 is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #18

infestør's Avatar
Surprise pølse!
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Ẍ
Posts: 3,831
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by antocya View Post
I support Israel's right to exist because generations have lived there now, that won't change, and it's the only home many of them have known. I do think if we could go back in time it would be better to find a different place. They do have a connection to Israel but they're not the only ones and after centuries of not living there people shouldn't expect to just go back and find it empty.
agreed. it's like turks decide to go back to central asia now because they claim that it's their promised land and start to repopulate the russo-chinese-mongolian lands after a millennium and expect it to be perfectly acceptable. they also revive the ancient turkish language, start writing in gokturk script and speak that. this is pretty much what israel did. "only" after 2 or 3 millennia, not 1.
infestør is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #19
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,080

A number of options were considered by a number of groups, Australia (ord river), South America, Uganda.

None of them had the attraction of Palestine.
pugsville is online now  
Old November 20th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #20
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post
Firstly, the Jews never ceased to live in Israel. They were still there, even after the Diaspora.

Secondly, the Jews who did not live in Israel did not expect to find it empty upon their return.
Firstly, the Jews (and the Gypsies, for that matter) have never ceased to live all around this Planet; they are still here,

Then, your second red herring simply makes no sense here (?!?!?).

In any case, as already stated and amazing as it may sound, no nation acquiring any territory (aside of some remote islands) could reasonably expect to find it "empty"

Just ask the British Empire.
sylla1 is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History

Tags
area, jews, levant, option, settling


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World war I generals: Fools or no option? jeroenrottgering War and Military History 14 November 28th, 2011 04:22 PM
Israel Samson option Arka Speculative History 2 November 19th, 2011 04:03 PM
Stalin's second option during WWII kowalskil Speculative History 10 September 24th, 2010 04:23 PM
Attackers going for full conquest but settling for less Adaptation War and Military History 9 May 27th, 2010 08:54 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.