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Old November 22nd, 2012, 04:29 AM   #61

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Originally Posted by Paragonrex View Post
Greetings Fellow Historical Laymen,
I have a nagging question that has hounded for years.
I have never found anyone of the right intellectual bent so to speak to discuss this with.
Since I tend to view everything through a historical lens I am forced to ask this question.
Israel, Palestine the whole mess there. It all stems from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire giving the Jews their own homeland thanks to the Balfour Agreement I believe it was.
But here is my thing, is it karma that has rained some much ill tidings on the Jews over the centuries? Even to this day. When I say this, I have no personal animus against them but, for one people to have suffered so much at the hands of so many. What is the true cause of this?
Karma for the atrocities they dished out to the native people of the Levant during their Exodus and subsequent settling of the area that would be Israel.
Is it a simple case of scapegoating them by the powers that be? And why would so many choose these people to do it to? Surly it cannot be for the sole reason of their betrayal of Jesus of Nazareth for they were feeling the barbs of injustice long before that.
So what is it?
I do not think a certain people are responsible for what their ancestors did. I also do not think a nation has a sole, only its constituents have it and they only maintain it during their lifetime (and perhaps in the heavens, based on your view). But once they are gone they're gone and revenge (or Karma; whatever that is keeping scores) is meaningless by then.

Not that revenge is a meaningful and rational concept anyway.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:16 PM   #62

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A simple search for "Anti-Semitism" in google would show that hatred or persecution was far more profound than mob violance....mostly on religious ground actually.
I'm talking specifically about the role of the church in directing violence and in particular with the massacres of Jews in the Crusades. Anti-Semitism in Europe in the Middle Ages is a lot more complex than what can show up in a quick Google search.

Last edited by antocya; November 22nd, 2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #63
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Things seem to be changing fast in the Middle-East ~

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Abdollahian, quoted by the Arabic-language Al-Alam television, said Iran "considers this move to be a preliminary step in the path of Palestinians having full sovereignty over their historical lands which were seized."
Iran welcomes Palestine vote as 'step forward' | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #64
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Update ~

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About 500,000 Israelis already live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem on land Israel seized in the 1967 Middle East war - territory the Palestinians claim for their independent state.
In many ways, Israel was caught off guard.

That is what worries Israel.

Quote:
If E-1 building goes ahead, the chances of talks resuming will be close to non-existent.

Stung by U.N. defeat, Israel pushes settlement plans | Reuters
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #65
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It was obvious that Levant was the worst option for Jews.
Ostensibly so it seems, but to be honest; from Uganda to Madagascar to Siberia, exactly which territory of this Planet would have been a good choice for the massive forced displacement of the local population?

If colonial practices were going to be required anyway in any potential territory, why not to bet from the beginning for the big prize of the historical homeland of a couple millennia ago, the very religiously promised land?
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Old November 30th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #66

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Ostensibly so it seems, but to be honest; from Uganda to Madagascar to Siberia, exactly which territory of this Planet would have been a good choice for the massive forced displacement of the local population?

If colonial practices were going to be required anyway in any potential territory, why not to bet from the beginning for the big prize of the historical homeland of a couple millennia ago, the very religiously promised land?
Creating a jewish state wasnt a requirement.

If It wished, I am sure Antartica would have been far better choice instead of throwing jews into the fire of religious and political conflicts. Where Jews were located is holly places for three religion. These land was unsabilized after WWI.

If It wished, somewhere in Canada, or US would have been obviouslly better choice. There should have been somewhere better for forcefully created state in whole around the world.

The fact that Jews love the land isn't an excuse.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 12:22 AM   #67
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Creating a jewish state wasnt a requirement.

If It wished, I am sure Antartica would have been far better choice instead of throwing jews into the fire of religious and political conflicts. Where Jews were located is holly places for three religion. These land was unsabilized after WWI.

If It wished, somewhere in Canada, or US would have been obviouslly better choice. There should have been somewhere better for forcefully created state in whole around the world.

The fact that Jews love the land isn't an excuse.
The fact that one of the three religions which locates holy places there is theirs (in fact, the original one) seems like a better excuse.

In any case, I can't understand why wouldn't the local population of either Canada or America have reacted against massive forced displacement.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 12:24 AM   #68

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Obviouslly, even building up a prefabric country in the middle of the ocean for Jews, would have been so far peacefull decision for Jews.

Also It would be so far economic decision than investing heavy load of money on weapons throughtout Israel history.

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
The fact that one of the three religions which locates holy places there is theirs (in fact, the original one) seems like a better excuse.

In any case, I can't understand why wouldn't the local population of either Canada or America have reacted against massive forced displacement.
They would object. There is almost nowhere on earth where they wouldnt be abble to create state without problem. I have no objection. But no where in massive Canada with 35 million population is like Levant where is designed to be instable.

ME, as well as Balkans, Caucassia are problematic areas. There are many politic conflicts in these areas, because of corruption of multiculturalism in these areas.

Last edited by Efendi; December 1st, 2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 12:28 AM   #69

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Canada and the US are large enough that the Jews could have immigrated and blended into the society as many of them did, however they couldn't have their own state.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 01:20 AM   #70
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Reaction from the INDIAN Press ~

World embraces Palestine; snubs US, Israel

Quote:
Canada, Panama, the Czech Republic and four tiny Pacific island states were the only ones in the 193-member UN General Assembly that backed the Washington-Tel Aviv axis in the crushing 9-138 defeat, with 41 abstentions. Allies and friends abandoned the United States and Israel in droves, fracturing a
facade

Quote:
of western unity that Washington had long engineered.
World embraces Palestine; snubs US, Israel - The Times of India

See what is coming, don't be stuck in the past. Don't Cow down people
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