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Old September 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM   #11

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


It is respecteable for jews and some Jannisaries to keep on their religions.

Jannisaries have to be muslim. They educated according to Alevi branch of Islam in the Sunni empire. They were different than the other soldiers.

It is like Ortodox soldiers in a Catholic empire.
Their way of religion was the more tolerant to the other. More liberated.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 02:01 AM   #12

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


Thanks for the information on the number of the jannisaries Efendi, even if they arent so much, im sure they did affected the population, because at those years (at least Bulgaria), had a vary low population, im not sure that bulgarians were more then 3-4 milion people back then.
Besides most people lived in villiges, and it wasnt so populated, today if i travel somewhere, after 2-3 km. im already in a villige or a populated area.
That wasnt the case back then.

About the payment of the jannisaries, of course they were payed very good, after all they were elite soldiers. I know about one period, when the Ottoman empire was in a finnacial crisis, and payed the jannisaries, with fake coins, they found out eventually. I dont know when that happend maybe you could know.

Here is one march for the jannisaries i guess -
Sounds very good
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Old September 9th, 2009, 11:22 AM   #13

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


Quote:
Originally Posted by sturm View Post
Thanks for the information on the number of the jannisaries Efendi, even if they arent so much, im sure they did affected the population, because at those years (at least Bulgaria), had a vary low population, im not sure that bulgarians were more then 3-4 milion people back then.
Besides most people lived in villiges, and it wasnt so populated, today if i travel somewhere, after 2-3 km. im already in a villige or a populated area.
That wasnt the case back then.

About the payment of the jannisaries, of course they were payed very good, after all they were elite soldiers. I know about one period, when the Ottoman empire was in a finnacial crisis, and payed the jannisaries, with fake coins, they found out eventually. I dont know when that happend maybe you could know.

Here is one march for the jannisaries i guess - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY3SMLUR6-c
Sounds very good
Sturm it is probably the late centuries when Ottomans lost their competitiveness. Jannisaries even dared to drag the Grand Vezirs Pavilion. They were notorious with their rebellions.

They often create disorders. People of Istanbul had always problem with them.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 11:29 AM   #14

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


But Jannisaries were fantastic warriors, just check what happend with the crusaders 1444 at Varna. The crusaders destroyed all the ottoman armies, but when they attacked a handful of jannisaries they were beaten..
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Old September 20th, 2009, 09:12 AM   #15

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


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But Jannisaries were fantastic warriors, just check what happend with the crusaders 1444 at Varna. The crusaders destroyed all the ottoman armies, but when they attacked a handful of jannisaries they were beaten..

Sure they were educated well. They could use Arrow, swords. Battle axes. They were perfectly elite.

They were chosed from the smartest, and powerfull youth. Mostly from slavic nations and Germanic tribes.

Anatolian people (Turks and the others) and other mediterneal people such as Greeks were comparativelly weaker and shorter relativelly to Bulgarians Serbians and Germanic tribes.

Their education were harsh. Some of them smack the marble with oily hands to empower their palm of the hands so that they could break the neck of the opponent in battle field with one heavy smack. Breaking the neck with heavy smack.

There is a term Ottoman Smack for heavy smack in the fights in turkish.

They knew wrestling perfectly. To balance themshelf perfectly in the battle. also to be perfectly powerfull and elastic.

No need to tell of theit mastery in arm, swords, bows.

Jannissaries were the result of the best race plus the best guns and hard military education whic is result of anctient traditions of warfare experiences.

Sultans were perfect comanders in the early Ottomans because of their experiences in warfare and their education. also because they have to defeat their brothers in wars amongs brothers.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #16

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


I dont think there is something like "best" race Efendi
But i agree with everything else you said.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #17

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Red face Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


I thought I would continue this with a recently published article found in Gates of Vienna blog:

One institution of such oppression practiced by the Turks was called Devshirme, or the practice of recruiting the best and brightest children, usually males, from Christian families, and forcing them to convert to Islam. These children were trained in the Sultan’s civil service, or they become part of an elite fighting force known as the Janissaries. From very inception of this institution the Christian population grievously resented the abduction of their children.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...ians.html#more
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #18

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


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Originally Posted by cannelidis1 View Post
I thought I would continue this with a recently published article found in Gates of Vienna blog:

One institution of such oppression practiced by the Turks was called Devshirme, or the practice of recruiting the best and brightest children, usually males, from Christian families, and forcing them to convert to Islam. These children were trained in the Sultan’s civil service, or they become part of an elite fighting force known as the Janissaries. From very inception of this institution the Christian population grievously resented the abduction of their children.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...ians.html#more
Turkish opression, Turks hate Greeks, ...convert them to Islam or kill them.. amount of devsirme was so high that countries depopulated...unhuman barbaric opressive Turkish legacy...With the threat of the Islamization of Europe and the Americas,.....

I don't understand any thing from this blog.


Note: Devsirme are not slavery, recuriting Christian children in Ottoman state, forcing or changing their religion. Soory for families if they missed their children.

Mainstream of the Vezirs (ministers), Grand Vezir (Prime ministers), also architecturers like Mimar Sinan, the other positions in the state are made of Devsirme,

There are still devsirme families in Turkey, most notably is Koprulu house. Sokullu family. there are many others. Köprülü family in their mighty day can be even regarded as dictator.

If their problem is conversion, I am proud of my convert root of Anatolia. After all Turks are all devsirme in one sense. on the other words muslim Rum.

Last edited by Efendi; September 29th, 2010 at 11:20 PM.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 01:48 AM   #19

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


One of the funniest thing, with all people who like Osmanic history, is people triying to justify the reqruitment of jannisaries, as being, not such a bad thing.

When Efendi has a son, maybe somebody has to come in his home, and take forcefuly his son, so that he will feel, what it is.
Vera in that forum has a son, she can understand me best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendi
As to the amount of Jannisaries(According to David Nicolle):

In "year number" order
1400 : >1,000[7]
1514 : 10,156 [8]
1523 : 12,000[8]
1526 : 7,885[8]
1564 : 13,502[8]
1567-68: 12,798[8]
1574 : 13,599[8]
1603 : 14,000[8]
1609 : 37,627[8]
1660-61: 54,222[8]
1665 : 49,556[8]
1669 : 51,437[8]
1670 : 49,868[8]
1680 : 54,222

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissa...f-Nicolle9_6-1
Soory i couln't find more trusteable source.
Not all, who are reqruited by the devshirme become jannisaries. The boys that are taken, are either enroll in the jannisary corps, enrolled as servicemens in the Palace (yes.. slaves), they could be enrolled for religious purposes.

One more thing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efendi
1400 : >1,000[7]
You want to tell us that 1000 jannisaries defeated the crusaders at 1444?

Jean-Baptiste Tavernier, a french traveler in his notes "Nouvelle Relation de L'ınterieur du Serrial du Grand Seigneur. 1678", writes that in 1678 the jannisaries were more then hundred thousend.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 02:04 AM   #20

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Re: THE IMPACT OF THE DEVSHIRME


The Devshirme System was a human taxation system in which young boys were taken by the sultan to be educated or to be used for military purposes.These jannisaroes would then beccome the Social Elite of the Ottoman Empire. The system was originally started by Sultan Murat I, who felt a need to lessen the power of (Turkish) nobles by developing Christian vassal soldiers and converted janissaries as his personal troops, independent of the regular army and only loyal to Sultan. But later, again during his regime he expanded the system to not only military purposes but also for administrative and educational purposes. The talented children showing promise in any branch would receive a different kind of training and education than the average Acemi Oglan (a name for the newly recruited boys literally meaning novice boy).So a palace school was established (Enderun)which would later be one of the driving forces in both the military and the technological growth of the Ottoman Empire.

According to Ottoman law 1 out of 4 slaves captured in a battle belonged to the Sultan. In the beginning the devshirme was only chosen out of these slaves but later the devshirme system was applied upon Christian families from the conquered Balkan areas (Muslims were not allowed as they already had a landlord or Pasha which they were loyal to. Boys from Christian families were chosen because they were only loyal to the Sultan.).A interesting fact is that the young men were only recruited form certain areas , from places where life was harsher upon its people.Although only Christians were allowed, there were many instances in which Turkish families bribed officials in to taking their children, as it was considered an honor to serve the Sultan, not to mention that the boys selected from the devrishme were educated and trained to be the elite of the Ottoman era(At the time of Suleiman the Magnificent Turkish boys were also taken but not in great numbers.Later this number of Turkish Jannisaries would constantly grow). Although the children were seemingly randomly picked from families there were rules which the recruiters had to follow. Firstly the family that would give up their son had to have more than one child. Recruiting from a family with only one child was not allowed. Also recruiting from a family that would fall in to poverty or have financial problems if the kid was to be recruited was also forbidden.A family that had already given their child for recruitment was not to be asked again. This rule was mainly held but during the fall of the empire in some cases local janissary lords would break these rules none the less, sometimes ripping families apart.
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