Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 1st, 2014, 02:22 PM   #1
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Miami-Gardens, Florida
Posts: 1,033
Did the Alans still retained cataphracts?


This I need help. As all of you know that the Alans are cousins or successors of the Scytho-Sarmatians, while during the 4th to 5th century ad (I think) they disappeared either because of the Huns or by some other groups, don't know. But have the Alans still retained a corps of cataphract horsemen, I mean they're related to Sarmatians...right? As the kingdom of alania (and the Georgia and khazarian khaganate) is a buffer state. I haven't found any sources. Do you know any?
Azarius Balios is offline  
Remove Ads
Old May 1st, 2014, 03:54 PM   #2

Frank81's Avatar
Guanarteme
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: Canary Islands-Spain
Posts: 4,014

In the 2nd century AD they still used cataphracts, as we can deduce from Roman descriptions of their tactics and weapons.

But I'm not so sure about the Alans of the 5th century, or the ones of later ages.
Frank81 is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 06:16 AM   #3
Suspended until March 15th, 2018
 
Joined: May 2015
From: Germany
Posts: 1,104

If I am right even the ancient Alans were noted to use less cataphracts than their Sarmatian kinsmen. With Turks occupying the western steppes the Alans probably 'turkified' their style of warfare, and afaik Turkic steppe nomads did not used any type of cataphract. Alanian ammulets of the Middle Ages doesn't appear to show any armoured horses:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The horsemen themselves would still be pretty heavily armoured though.
Swagganaut is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 12:24 AM   #4

johnincornwall's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Cornwall
Posts: 5,246

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azarius Balios View Post
This I need help. As all of you know that the Alans are cousins or successors of the Scytho-Sarmatians, while during the 4th to 5th century ad (I think) they disappeared either because of the Huns or by some other groups, don't know. But have the Alans still retained a corps of cataphract horsemen, I mean they're related to Sarmatians...right? As the kingdom of alania (and the Georgia and khazarian khaganate) is a buffer state. I haven't found any sources. Do you know any?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank81 View Post
In the 2nd century AD they still used cataphracts, as we can deduce from Roman descriptions of their tactics and weapons.

But I'm not so sure about the Alans of the 5th century, or the ones of later ages.
Frank is correct, we don't really know enough about them later.

I think they ended up with some absorbed by the Ostrogoths, who were subjest of the Huns too, and some gone off to Spain, eventually to be absorbed by the Asdingian Vandals who, along with the remnants of the Silingians and other motley assortments, refugeed off to Africa. Some would also inevitably have been absorbed by the Visigoths sooner or later, as they were also connected to the Swabians/Suevos.
johnincornwall is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 03:03 AM   #5

Tonuquq's Avatar
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: The Other Side
Posts: 7

The name "Alan" was mentioned by written sources in 1st century AD for the first time. In Chinese sources, Alans were one of the nine Tele-Turk tribes |Duan, Dingling, Gaoju and Tiele, p. 47-49, 330-339|, |Denis Sinor, The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia, Vol. 1, 1990, p. 271|. Tele-Turk was a confederation of nine Turkic peoples. In ancient period they were "Scythians (Saka), Dinlings, Kangju Kingdom and the Huns". During middle ages they were "Rouran, Göktürk, Karluk, Kimek, Oghuz, Kara-Khanid, Qara Khitai, Mongolians and the Golden Horde". In Orkhon inscriptions, Alans (As) were often mentioned as a Turkic tribe as well as the Kyrgyz people |Bartold V.V|. Historian Al-Biruni wrote that the language of Alans was similar to the Khwarazmian dynasty and Kumans (Pechenegs). Certain branches of Alans also constitute the ancestors of Kıpchak (Karachay-Balkar) and Oghuz peoples (including Azerbaijanis). |Zakiev M. Z., Who are Alans?, 1995|
Tonuquq is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #6
Suspended until March 15th, 2018
 
Joined: May 2015
From: Germany
Posts: 1,104

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
Frank is correct, we don't really know enough about them later.
There was a full-blown Alanian kingdom from the 9th/10th to the 13th century, one that has left a solid amount of archaeological sources, mixed with a handful of foreign written accounts. I think in the near future I will make an own thread for it in the "Medieval History"-forum.
Swagganaut is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History

Tags
alans, cataphracts, retained



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did the Alans mix with the Huns? Euroblood European History 25 July 19th, 2015 08:29 AM
CeltIberian Cataphracts? Mrbsct Ancient History 9 December 2nd, 2013 12:04 PM
Were Zenobia's cataphracts arabic... cachibatches Ancient History 0 September 2nd, 2012 07:49 PM
The origins of cataphracts Salah Ancient History 9 June 1st, 2012 04:54 AM
Cataphracts invincible? THE MASTER War and Military History 7 September 12th, 2011 12:27 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.