Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Middle Eastern and African History Middle Eastern and African History Forum - Egypt, Syria, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all nations of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 29th, 2014, 12:30 AM   #1
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: India
Posts: 4,516
What was ethnicity of creators of Bamiyan Buddhas?


Do we know anything about this topic, who created Bamiyan Buddhas? Which language was spoken in area around Bamiyan and were artists immigrants or locals?
Ajanbahu is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 29th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #2
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: India
Posts: 4,516

Recently, I have seen Hazaras claiming Bamiyan Buddhas as 'Hazara heritage'. Now I sympathize with Hazaras but this claim is really ridiculous. Hazaras are result of Turko Mongol invasions in Islamic Afghanistan while Bamiyan Buddhas were created in 5th century.
Ajanbahu is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 02:12 AM   #3

Viraspa's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Former Corded Ware
Posts: 1,240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
Do we know anything about this topic, who created Bamiyan Buddhas? Which language was spoken in area around Bamiyan and were artists immigrants or locals?
really good question. Bamyan was also the site of an early Buddhist monastery from which Bamyan has his name (Sanskrit varmayana, "coloured") and is the home of some of the oldest oil paintings.It seems that it was populated by local eastern iranic people and many indian artists,merchants and missionaries who settled there during the rule of the kushan .Later already in pre-islamic times some turks settled there also. Most assume that the Statues were built during the rule of the kushan and portray Dipankara Buddha.

Quote:
The valley of Bamiyan runs east to west for some 30 miles, flanked to the north and south by the 15,000-ft peaks of the Hindu Kush and Koh-i-Baba ranges. It made a natural corridor for migration and trade, and still affords a relatively easy passage between Kabul and Turkestan. Buddhist monks probably settled there early in Kushan times, and Bamiyan quickly grew into a major monastic center, repeatedly mentioned in Chinese texts from the fifth century C.E. onward. The pilgrim Fa Hsien passed through in about 400 C.E., and witnessed a ceremonial conclave of a thousand monks in the presence of the king, whose largesse is duly noted ( Fa Hsien also makes a point of the sacred relics kept in Bamiyan: a tooth of the Buddha, and his spittoon; cited in Dupree, 1967). The celebrated traveller Xuanzang visited in 632 C.E., and described that same solemn assembly. He was impressed by the monk’s devotion, and mentions the giant standing Buddhas. A century later a monk from Korea, Huichao (727 C.E. ) describes Bamiyan as an independent Buddhist state, perhaps under Sassanian suzerainty. An indigenous dynasty that adhered to Buddhism as best it could survived in these mountains until 970 C.E., when the rulers of Ghazni (in southern Afghanistan) imposed Islam on all their domain. Muslim kings then ruled for another two centuries, their reach at times extending to the Oxus river. Their residence was the large city on the plateau facing the two Buddhas, whose ruins are now known as Shahr-i-Gholghola ( variously translated as the City of Silence, or of Screams). Bamiyan was protected by watchtowers and by two massive outlying fortresses, but when the day of reckoning came nothing could deflect the storm.
https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...n/bamiyan.html

Unfornuately the mongols exterminated the local and native population of bamyan and destroyed the city of bamyan so we will probably never really know what languages were spoken in bamyan in the past . But it is most likely that bamyan was dominated by eastern iranic languages or already persianized when the mongols arrived there.But sanskrit was the dominating liturgical language there till islam

Last edited by Viraspa; December 29th, 2014 at 03:49 AM.
Viraspa is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 02:14 AM   #4

Viraspa's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Former Corded Ware
Posts: 1,240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
Recently, I have seen Hazaras claiming Bamiyan Buddhas as 'Hazara heritage'. Now I sympathize with Hazaras but this claim is really ridiculous. Hazaras are result of Turko Mongol invasions in Islamic Afghanistan while Bamiyan Buddhas were created in 5th century.
yes an indian from bihar had even more right to claim this as his heritage than hazaras
Viraspa is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 04:37 AM   #5
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: India
Posts: 4,516

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viraspa View Post
really good question. Bamyan was also the site of an early Buddhist monastery from which Bamyan has his name (Sanskrit varmayana, "coloured") and is the home of some of the oldest oil paintings.It seems that it was populated by local eastern iranic people and many indian artists,merchants and missionaries who settled there during the rule of the kushan .Later already in pre-islamic times some turks settled there also. Most assume that the Statues were built during the rule of the kushan and portray Dipankara Buddha.

https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...n/bamiyan.html

Unfornuately the mongols exterminated the local and native population of bamyan and destroyed the city of bamyan so we will probably never really know what languages were spoken in bamyan in the past . But it is most likely that bamyan was dominated by eastern iranic languages or already persianized when the mongols arrived there.But sanskrit was the dominating liturgical language there till islam
Thank you. I agree that knowing about local inhabitants' language is difficult, though my guess is Bactrians as site was an urban centre and thrived due to trade and we know that bactrians were a mercantile people.
Both Sanskrit and Gandhari manuscripts have been found from there dating from 3rd to 8th century. It was good that Talibanis were stupids and did not care to search inside the caves so lot of Afghanistan's heritage survived in form of manuscripts,oil paintings and sculptures.
Ajanbahu is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 06:39 AM   #6
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2014
From: Bhuloka
Posts: 1,979

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
Do we know anything about this topic, who created Bamiyan Buddhas?
Hephthalite shaivite king khingla commissioned for the construction of Buddhas after the expansion of his territory

Quote:
Which language was spoken in area around Bamiyan
Bactrian and Dardic

Quote:
and were artists immigrants or locals?
They were basically from Hadda school of art.Locals!

Last edited by Drona Bharadwaja; December 29th, 2014 at 07:01 AM.
Drona Bharadwaja is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 06:47 AM   #7
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2014
From: Bhuloka
Posts: 1,979

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
Thank you. I agree that knowing about local inhabitants' language is difficult, though my guess is Bactrians
You are right.Bactrian was the lingua franca of that period in Bamiyan.There's no need to guess as we have many bactrian documents from bamiyan
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Drona Bharadwaja; December 29th, 2014 at 06:54 AM.
Drona Bharadwaja is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 06:53 AM   #8
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2014
From: Bhuloka
Posts: 1,979

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viraspa View Post
Most assume that the Statues were built during the rule of the kushan and portray Dipankara Buddha.
That is not true.They weren't built during the kushan rule.Fahien visited Bamiyan post kushan rule and he found no statues there.
Drona Bharadwaja is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 07:04 AM   #9

Viraspa's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Former Corded Ware
Posts: 1,240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
Thank you. I agree that knowing about local inhabitants' language is difficult, though my guess is Bactrians as site was an urban centre and thrived due to trade and we know that bactrians were a mercantile people.
Both Sanskrit and Gandhari manuscripts have been found from there dating from 3rd to 8th century. It was good that Talibanis were stupids and did not care to search inside the caves so lot of Afghanistan's heritage survived in form of manuscripts,oil paintings and sculptures.
actually we know almost nothing about the local inhabitants there in pre-islamic times and without the texts found in buddhists monasteries and the reports of chinese pilgrims we would know nothing. Because of the location of bamiyan it is likely that they either spoke bactrian there or a language closely related to bactrian. But i remember that i read somewhere that asvaka/kamboja tribesmen plundered some monasteries so they probably also lived there or had some kind of presence there.
Viraspa is offline  
Old December 29th, 2014, 07:09 AM   #10

Viraspa's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Former Corded Ware
Posts: 1,240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drona Bharadwaja View Post
Bactrian and Dardic
dardic languages were not spoken there by the local inhabitants during the time when buddhism was popular there. Bamiyan is too much western located and was quite early populated by iranic people. Dardic languages were widespread in isolated regions of eastern afghanistan

Last edited by Viraspa; December 29th, 2014 at 07:15 AM.
Viraspa is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Middle Eastern and African History

Tags
bamiyan, buddhas, creators, ethnicity



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Super Pissed at the creators of Hindu Arabic numerals? qijino1236 General History 14 October 17th, 2014 01:13 PM
Lu Bu ethnicity Zoopiter Asian History 9 June 8th, 2013 10:12 AM
Regarding Ethnicity Mischef_Managed Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 10 December 14th, 2011 02:46 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.