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View Poll Results: Which side during the Crusades were the relative "good guys"?
The Crusaders 68 47.89%
The Muslims 74 52.11%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 22nd, 2017, 12:49 AM   #171

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When was the last time you heard of a "good guy" killing in the name of an imaginary friend? The correct answer is "NEVER"...and why NEITHER side during the Crusades was the good guys.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:46 AM   #172

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I just joined a couple of months ago, one of the disappointing themes on this forum is the idea of good vs bad. It is juvenile and na´ve, even when you put quotations around the terms.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 12:13 AM   #173

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You will get used to it.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 04:04 AM   #174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugulgad View Post
I just joined a couple of months ago, one of the disappointing themes on this forum is the idea of good vs bad. It is juvenile and na´ve, even when you put quotations around the terms.
I would add a failure to use and understand 'context'.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:54 AM   #175

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Originally Posted by Alto View Post
There were no good guys. Almost every Middle Eastern country was ruled by a foreigner except Cilician Armenia. Saladin, Nur-ad Din, Zangi, and all these other heroes of liberation weren't even Arabs. The land they were fighting over was just another fief.
He was Kurdish.

Ethnic nationalism in a modern sense did not exist at this period. The main issue was rather Sunni versus Shia. Muslims at the time largely viewed the Crusades as a minor side show. The Ayyubid overthrow of the Shia Fatimids in Egypt was far more important. It's no accident that the famed Ismaili Nizaris, better known as the Assassins, targeted Saladin. This was a struggle for primacy across the Muslim world.

In response to the title of this thread: my sympathy is with the local people of all stripes who were victim of fanatical crusader genocide at this period. The crusaders were equal with ISIS today. Murderers, criminals and rapists.

Last edited by SufiMystic; December 26th, 2017 at 09:58 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #176

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Originally Posted by bugulgad View Post
I just joined a couple of months ago, one of the disappointing themes on this forum is the idea of good vs bad. It is juvenile and na´ve, even when you put quotations around the terms.
Spot on. And its not as if the theme hasn't been done to death either.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 12:58 PM   #177
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Right. In any case, plundering was not something extraordinarily unnatural anyway. Europeans sacked each other, moslems sacked each other and chinese states sacked each other. To me especially pointing out the fact that "moslems plundered christian cities" or vice versa are just poor religious bigotry in which sides just trying to show off whose d1cks are bigger.
True, but I think the sacking of Constantinople by Mehmed II warrants a bit of distinction because it resulted in the largest iconoclast of all time and resulted in the fall of an impressive empire's capital.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 02:23 PM   #178
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I apologize if I offended anyone, but the maps were historically accurate in how it depicted the expansion of the Muslim Empires, as well as the Crusades.
They were extremely biased. How does it make sense to compare every single Muslim conquest ever with the Crusades? Why not compare every single Christian conquest ever with Muslim ones instead?
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Old January 4th, 2018, 05:00 PM   #179

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It is interesting to note how Christian and Muslim scholars have viewed the Middle ages. The American scholar Eva March Tappan explored the middle ages..we can note here how Tappan provides praise to both Christians and Muslims of the so called Crusades. Tappen was an early 20th century female writer, and this makes the insight even more interesting,

On the whole, none of the warriors seems to have behaved in so praiseworthy a fashion as the Mohammedan Saladin. This brave and knightly leader greatly admired the daring deeds of Richard. They exchanged many courtesies, and when the English king was ill, his enemy sent him fruit and ice for his comfort.

Richard's boldness amazed every one. He was always in the thickest of the fight, striking off a foeman's head with one blow of his sword, or swinging his terrible [180] battle-axe with twenty pounds of steel in its head. One of his enemies declared, "No man can escape from his sword; his attack is dreadful; to engage with him is fatal, and his deeds are beyond human nature." Saladin's brother, too, looked upon his enemy with warmest admiration; and when Richard was once dismounted in battle, the Saracen sent him as a gift two noble horses. It is said that fifty years later, if the horse of a Saracen shied, his rider would say, "What, do you think you see King Richard in that bush?"


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Old January 5th, 2018, 04:03 AM   #180

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I think the 'Crusades' per se are a quite small percentage of Christian/Muslim interaction.

But today take up about 95% of the debate and literature in the subject.

Wholly out of all proportion.
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