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View Poll Results: Which side during the Crusades were the relative "good guys"?
The Crusaders 62 48.06%
The Muslims 67 51.94%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 21st, 2015, 05:22 PM   #1

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Which side during the Crusades were the relative "good guys"?


As for me, based on what I know right now, I am tempted to say the Muslims due to the fact that they appear to have been more restrained; to elaborate on this, whereas the Crusaders killed most or all of the residents of Antioch and Jerusalem after they captured those two cities, the Muslims appear to have done no such thing after they recaptured cities from the Crusaders (in spite of previous Crusader brutality against non-Christians and even against Eastern Orthodox Christians).

Thoughts on this?
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Old May 21st, 2015, 05:34 PM   #2

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Certainly the Muslims, at least from a big picture perspective.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 05:44 PM   #3
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The muslims were a local population while the christians came from far away on the basis of relgious extremism.

Like religious extremists today like ISIS or something they were quite blood thirsty and ignorant. For the most part, some I am sure were sincere. In the narratives I have seen the muslims were better.

But, nobody beats what the Mongols did in the middle east. They make the crusaders look like boy scouts.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 06:44 PM   #4

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I just hope we as Muslims also leave religious extremism behind soon. Time for us to wake up before it is too late...
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Old May 21st, 2015, 10:14 PM   #5
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"good guys" : Certainly the local people.

Local christians, local muslims and any other religious mode local people, are always the victims of in the name of religion invaders.

------------------

Anna Comnena: The Alexiad: Book XI

The First Crusade (1097-1104) Internet History Sourcebooks

........................................

VIII...................At this time a Norman army arrived whose leaders were two brothers called Flanders. The Emperor [Alexios I Komnenos] repeatedly advised them to travel by the same road as the armies that had gone on before, and to reach Jerusalem by the coast and thus join the rest of the Latin army. But he found that they would not listen as they did not wish to join the Franks, but wanted to travel by another route more to the east and march straight to Chorosan in the hope of taking it. The Emperor [Alexios I Komnenos] knew that this plan was quite inexpedient and as he did not wish such a large crowd to perish (for they were fifty thousand horse and a hundred thousand foot) he tried the next best thing,' as the saying is, when he found they would not listen to him. He sent for Isangeles and Tzitas and asked them to accompany the Normans, to advise them to their advantage and to restrain them as far as possible in their mad enterprises. After crossing the straits of Cibotus they hastened on to Armenia and on reaching Ancyra took it by assault ; next they went over the [river] Halys and reached a small town. This was inhabited by Romans and consequently the citizens feared nothing; the priests clad in their sacred vestments, and carrying the gospel and crosses went out to meet their fellow-Christians. But the Normans in an inhuman and merciless fashion slaughtered not only the priests but the rest of the Christians also, and then quite heedlessly continued their journey, moving in the direction of Amaseia.........................................

============

Last edited by ANAX; May 21st, 2015 at 10:25 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 10:31 PM   #6

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Good guys and Bad Guys, great.

I seem to remember great Christian cities like Alexandria and Constaninople --can not even find the last one on the map.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 10:35 PM   #7

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Muslims. They AFAIK allowed Christians to visit their holy sites for pilgrimage. Also Crusades were not just the conflict over control of Holy lands but also crusades against Orthodox Church, Europe's remaining Pagans who were completely irrelevant yet were attacked by crusaders.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 10:39 PM   #8

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Both sides committed their fair share of atrocities, and neither can be said to be the relative "good guys"
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Old May 21st, 2015, 10:52 PM   #9

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Well it's easy to say 'muslims' until you remember they only turned up 600-odd years after christianity at all

There was no resolution just as there isn't now, and there were good guys and bad guys on both sides, just as there are now.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 11:03 PM   #10

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I'm no expert on a subject, but a while back i read an interesting book by Rodney Stark which tried to shed some New Light on the subject.
He argues that the very one sided view of today stems (as do a lot of popular opinions about medieval times) mostly from the enlightenment trying slander this age.
The crusades didn't come out of nowhere, Muslims had attacjed and overrun many bastions of the Christian faith in the previous centuries, even crossing the alps. The treatment of the majority Christian and Jewish Population in these regions wasn't as good as it is often portrayed today.
In the time leading up to the First crusade, Muslims were starting to get more violent against pilgrims in the Holy Lands, disturbing the relative religious peace in the reason. This lead to Christians not being able to embark on their pilgrimages without fear of being robbed or Killed on the way.
He also argues that the massacres in Jerusalem and other cities were not out of the ordinary at the time and that the Muslims had treated conquered cities similarly before and After.
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